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bjelkeman-again an hour ago

Destroying ecosystems beyond a tipping point. And the politicians just care about being re-elected. Focusing on short term gain.

” The decision taken by the Council of Ministers earlier this week on the 2024 fishing quotas in the Baltic Sea is in many ways unique. It shows a remarkable historical short-sightedness, ignorance of the fish and fishing in the inland sea, inability to understand the scientific advice of the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea (ICES) and - perhaps most of all: the ministers are bending the laws that regulate fishing, ecosystems and the marine environment to the limit.”

https://balticwaters.org/en/baltic-sea-brief-60-the-final-he...

bjelkeman-again 42 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The world reached peak fish catch in the mid-90s. [1] And we now eat more grown fish than caught fish. The problem is that with increased acidity in the oceans, as part of the ocean absorbing mor CO2, we get less algae and eventually less fish. [2] But, yeah, let’s keep fishing until the stocks collapse. [3] They take a very very long time to recover.

[1] https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/capture-fisheries-vs-aqua...

[2] https://www.ioc.unesco.org/en/articles/ocean-acidification-t...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collapse_of_the_Atlantic_north...

ElFitz 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What makes it even more ridiculous is that one could think grown fish are a fine solution over-fishing.

But it turns out, many fish farms use caught fish for (part of) the fishmeal and fish oil used to feed the fish they grow. Because many fish we eat turn out to be pescetarian.

EA-3167 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Ocean acidification is much more complex than "less algae and less fish." In fact some algae and bacteria will have giant blooms partly as a result of that, warming, and Nitrogenous runoff. Giant blooms consume oxygen in the primary marine trophic levels, causing die-offs that liberate more nutrients, leading to hypoxic and even large anoxic zones. You also have the concern that acifification can lead to (at first) worse outcomes for organisms depending on carbonates, and eventually (potentially) their extinction.

All of this assumes that we have a pretty solid understanding of what this system looks like as we wrench it from one feedback loop into another, but it's the best we've got.

epolanski 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Nobody is going to be elected telling people the harsh truth: that we consume far too much than the planet can sustain.

Farmers and fishers on top of that will always get cross partizan sympathy.

People just don't want to hear that the way they eat impacts and stresses the planet beyond its limits and that the producers of food get in any way penalized.

Truth is that we desperately need carbon taxes asap, to at least slow down the planet destruction. But it will never be popular.

cortesoft 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is we have no way to pass a global carbon tax, and the way the global economy works now any attempts at a national level will only succeed in moving the carbon generation to other countries.

throw8384948 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In Germany we tried that, politicians like that got very strong mandate to lower emissions.

First we tried diesel gate.

Then someone had amazing idea to import Russian gas.

Now we are catching and taxing cow farts! Maybe bio methane could generate electricity!!!

ASalazarMX 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem is multifaceted, because we're not only aren't told the truth, we are told lies that make things even worse, and people seem to like those.

For example, overpopulation has been a concern for many decades, yet politicians that ignore the problem, or actually advocate for more population, somehow keep getting elected. Either democracy has broken beyond repair, or humanity averages to dumb. I'm inclined to the latter, because I believe that every individual, even if they can do smart things, is very dumb in other things.

gruez 11 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

>For example, overpopulation has been a concern for many decades, yet politicians that ignore the problem, or actually advocate for more population, somehow keep getting elected.

Are you from the 1800s? Malthusianism has been discredited for decades, thanks to the green revolution and falling fertility rates. Not to mention all politicians that tried to do something (ie. didn't "ignore the problem") have a sorry track record - eugenics, one child policy, or forced sterilizations.

amanaplanacanal 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

I don't believe they are talking about malthusianism. That's a straw man. The arguement is that the sheer number of people is causing damage to the natural environment, not that we can't grow enough food to feed people.

alephnerd 23 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> overpopulation has been a concern for many decades, yet politicians that ignore the problem, or actually advocate for more population, somehow keep getting elected

Most societies have reached a point where fertility rates have declined to below replacement.

singleshot_ 8 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Given that the politicians are making a billion dollars on crypto scams, being gifted multimillion-dollar airplanes, and recipients of gold crowns, I’ll eat whatever I want regardless of who is elected.

The truth is that if we weren’t burdened with multi billionaires, we would have plenty of everything.

Computer0 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

Then perhaps it would be prudent to act to remove them and seize their capital.