| ▲ | satvikpendem 6 hours ago |
| Cursor, since Grok 4.5, has had an incredible deal for frontier level models, their subscription now goes way further than OpenAI or Anthropic. Even on their lower tier plans you can use a lot tokens on their of their first party models (Grok and Composer) and not really run out comparatively. Combine them with an orchestrator and implementor type setup and it goes even further. |
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| ▲ | johnnyApplePRNG 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| >their subscription now goes way further than OpenAI or Anthropic. Until it doesn't... Honestly, this entire OpenAI reset credit fiasco this past week has convinced me to rip off the Codex and Claude Code bandaids and start building my own proper Pi Coding Agent running models that I select and pay for on openrouter. And I am feeling a lot better about it now that I've finally got it working. |
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| ▲ | hgoel an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >Until it doesn't... I don't get the point of this. We all seem to agree that these companies have almost no moat, if one stops being a good deal, you can switch to another. That doesn't invalidate the existence of a deal that is currently good. | | |
| ▲ | johnnyApplePRNG an hour ago | parent [-] | | No, it doesn't. My point was that chasing deals like this is just kicking the can down the road. You're going to have to reckon with harsh price increases sooner or later. So I have resolved to avoid that future-dreading and fixed it, basically. | | |
| ▲ | andybak 33 minutes ago | parent [-] | | My entire digital existence for the last 20 years or so has been a parasitical relationship with VC funding. They keep throwing money at business models that involve building market share and I keep benefiting. It hasn't stopped working yet. |
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| ▲ | unglaublich 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | But still for US frontier you're paying 10-20x more per token compared to their limited subscriptions. For China frontier you'll be good though, and that might be the future anyway. | | |
| ▲ | johnnyApplePRNG an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Relying on a single frontier model to just zero-shot all the work is so 2025. Deepseek V4 Flash 0731 is surprisingly capable and cheap. [0] Checkout pi coding agent. You can create as many different sub-agents as you wish, to specialize and understand and tackle or pass off any problem you like. It's refreshing, really. I feel like a coder in control again. [0] https://arcprize.org/results/deepseek-v4-flash-0731 | |
| ▲ | maxdo 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Grok is cheaper vs real Chinese frontier aka kimi. Sponsored or not. |
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| ▲ | embedding-shape 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Honestly, this entire OpenAI reset credit fiasco this past week Huh, what's happened? I'm on the 20x plan and haven't noticed any fiasco, what went down exactly? | | |
| ▲ | ModernMech 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nothing really, when model usage goes up they do a credit. They did two last week. | | |
| ▲ | wetoastfood 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Your reason for the rate limit reset is speculative. Here's a history of them and tweets that correspond to when they happen. Others can be the judge if they believe the stated reasons or not: https://codex-resets.com/ |
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| ▲ | aliljet 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Can you explain what you mean? These days courtesy of an addictive reset game OpenAI is playing, I can't find anything with frontier intelligence that's more cost efficient... |
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| ▲ | timr 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | If they didn’t constantly reset, they’d be about the same as Anthropic. Right now, I find that Grok offers better value, uses fewer tokens per turn, and makes better code. I haven’t tried Cursor because I don’t want to change editors again, but maybe I should try it… | | |
| ▲ | apitman 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Are there any projects that track how much usage of each model translates to how much percentage drop in weekly/5hr windows? | | |
| ▲ | taosx 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Usage? Not exactly. But I tried to make something that can estimate dollars per tokens in actual usage while taking into account multiple factors. https://harness.eveid.com/lazy-harness-cost-simulation | | |
| ▲ | hyldmo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Just curious, was this coded with Claude or Codex? Copy reads very Claude to me but I’m curious if thats an actual pattern or just me | | |
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| ▲ | timr 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Not that I know of. AA's token use metrics (mentioned in this article) are indicative, however. They say explicitly here that the Grok models are notably token efficient. This is my experience. |
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| ▲ | esafak 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That is not true; GPT is the most reasoning efficient model family on the market. | | |
| ▲ | timr an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | The benchmark article we're replying to shows that Grok token usage is at least on par with the latest OpenAI models [1], and significantly cheaper per token: https://artificialanalysis.ai/models/grok-4-6#token-use So depending on how you want to define "token efficiency", Grok is either tied with OpenAI, or in the lead. [1] Though I grant that 4.6 appears to be wordier, on the order of Terra max. | |
| ▲ | pickleRick243 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah, even without the resets, chatgpt subscription currently goes quite a bit further than an equivalent anthropic plan. The main reason to have an anthropic plan is to get access to Fable 5 if you feel the quality of output makes it worth it. |
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| ▲ | nomilk 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How does Grok 4.5 compare to Opus >= 4.8 though? I'm willing to pay 2x for a 10% smarter model. Intelligence matters that much (because 10% smarter probably saves, on average, several hours of human time). |
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| ▲ | redox99 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It's a bit worse. I haven't tried so it's pure speculation based on benchmarks, but I'd assume Grok 4.6 is around Opus 4.8 in real world use, but clearly below Opus 5. | | |
| ▲ | douglee650 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I've found Fable 5 to be so much better than 4.8. For building a full stack custom CRM and media pipeline tool with video conversion, transcription, and indexing. Supabase, AWS, Meili, NextJS, GCS - lots of surfaces and planes. 4.8 basically couldn't do it, I abandoned the project as the fallback was, "current business processes". With F5 it's been 4 weeks and almost ready for production release. | | |
| ▲ | mandeepj 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | I have the same quality results with Fable. With just a brief prompt, it created a great static website with a beautiful animation of a workflow. Gemini's output was so poor that I closed the chat. And with Codex, the results were bad, so I discarded them. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | vorticalbox 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Grok is $2 in and $6 out. 4.8 is $5 in and $25 out. It’s not as quite as smart as opus 4.8 but it’s close and x4 the cheaper. |
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| ▲ | hmokiguess 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I believe they are the only western provider that has Kimi K3 on a subscription plan today as well. I would love to ditch Anthropic and be on Kimi if there were a subsidized plan like that with ZDR |
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| ▲ | msh 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Opencode have it in their subscription | | |
| ▲ | jauntywundrkind 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | I believe it's one of the models you have to go in to your settings on and enable Chinese providers for to use. Could be mistaken. I wish there was a clear list on this. |
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| ▲ | pkaye 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | GitHub Copilot does have Kimi K3. | | |
| ▲ | timr 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | What’s the multiplier? GH copilot nerfed their product so badly that I unsubscribed. | | |
| ▲ | pkaye 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | They don't do request based pricing anymore. Its just token based (1 credit = $0.01) plus some bonus credit based on which plan you subscribe. So for example a $39 plan get $70 of credits. https://github.com/features/copilot/plans https://github.blog/changelog/2026-08-06-kimi-k3-is-now-avai... | | |
| ▲ | timr 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, I know, but "credit" translates differently because the models bill at different rates, which gets turned into "multipliers" (or at least, it did). Have they converted entirely to transparent API rates + base allocation now? One of the reasons I left was that if I was going to be billed at API rates anyway, I'd just rather use the APIs. The value proposition still sucks for individuals now, when the other major providers are bundling at below-API rates. | | |
| ▲ | krzyk 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, they have transparent api rates. And for Anthropic and OpenAI their rates are exactly like API pricing. |
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| ▲ | shishcat 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I’d love a subsidized Kimi subscription too. The official Kimi subscription is always out of stock and doesn’t have great limits, while the K3 allotments on OpenCode and Cursor don’t seem to last very long either. | |
| ▲ | maxdo 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Kimi is expensive . Cursor with subscription is cheaper , grok 4.5 per task paid per tokens ( no subs ) is also cheaper . If you willing to share to no zdr, meta is waaaaaay cheaper vs Kimi. With recent offerings from spacex and meta , I hardly imagine why would you pay money to any Chinese vendor it’s not as cheap and it’s not as intelligent neither . Maybe deepseek is an exception , but it’s only good for narrow use cases that probably goes into modal.com and other gpu + fine tune me easy vendors , not vanilla dumb but cheap model . | |
| ▲ | homakov 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | kimi k3 credits end in just a few sessions. Only Grok models allow generous use in Cursor Pro/+ | |
| ▲ | jeffyaw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | you can use Kimi K3 on the typed++ model tier: https://typed.cloud | |
| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | tekwarder 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | GabAI has KimiK3 |
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| ▲ | everfrustrated 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Cursor also allows disabling Grok Fast mode which means tokens last forever. Fast is great tho, but nice to have the option. |
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| ▲ | jesse_dot_id 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Goes even further to exfiltrate your data, yeah. |
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| ▲ | greenavocado 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | That would be Muse Spark Contributor Tier. 12-21x price reduction at the expense of your digital existence. | | |
| ▲ | CuriouslyC 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'd be the first model I'd reach for if I was providing a free service to AI gooners though. Serves them both right. | | |
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| ▲ | Computer0 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| When I last used Cursor their subscription covered usage of ~$20 per month. Have they switched to a subsidized subscription model like ChatGPT and Claude? |
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| ▲ | satvikpendem 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Subsidized for their own models now, plus 20 dollars of API credit for non first party models. |
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