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asveikau 4 hours ago

I'd be curious to know, with the reduction in size, if calorie density went up.

Because that would fit a lot of people's perception of how food is going: you get less, but what you do get is worse for you.

mschild 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Potentially as a side effect. A lot of ingredients are switched to cheaper, often more processed substitutes.

For example, vegtable oil instead of olive oil, fructose corn syrup instead of honey or sugar.

Beyond that chainging composition to reduce amount of expensive ingredients. Think Pesto Genovese which is originally Parmesan, Basil, pine nuts, etc. Instead of only pine nuts, you now include other nuts for texture and only add a smaller amount for flavour (and worse add flavoring so customers don't notice too quickly).

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22486545/

VirusNewbie 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

is there any actual truth that real sugar is not as bad as HFCS? If I drink an american coke every day am I really worse off than if I have the cane sugar coke?

tptacek 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No. They're metabolically equivalent. "High fructose" corn syrup is "high" relative to normal corn syrup, not relative to sugar, some of the HFCS formulae in packaged food has less fructose than table sugar, and, most importantly, your body is a well-oiled machine at breaking down sucrose, which is cleaved enzymatically immediately upon it entering your gut; there's no material slowdown in digestion from eating sucrose.

(The key thing to remember is that sugar is bad for you; it's not that HFCS is good, but rather that cane sugar is just as harmful.)

Two fun additional notes:

* There's a video somewhere showing how cane sugar breaks down into fructose and glucose in bottled sodas anyways, and

* Perhaps unsurprisingly, taste testers can't reliably distinguish between HFCS and cane sugar formula Coke.

vel0city 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Yeah, a big part of the flavor difference between Mexican Coke and American Coke really comes down to the extra sodium in the Mexican Coke variety.

You can get the US formula coke with cane sugar during Passover in markets with a high Jewish population. Taste it, it'll be practically the same as HFCS US Coke and not like Mexican Coke. Because, it has the same amount of salt as the US variety.

TylerE 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The bigger difference, imo, is that Coke just tastes better out of a glass bottle. Orifice size and shape makes a big difference in taste and mouthfeel.

smolder 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't think so. I've seen things that say fructose has worse effects than sucrose in terms of spiking your blood sugar or whatever but that's minor compared to the overall impact of any sugar. Sugar is sweet because we were once starving beasts and calories were good. Now it's a hazard. And corn syrup gets dumped into all kinds of processed foods in the US because of how cheap it is, and how much people like sweet stuff.

We have shaped our food culture in a way to maximize short term profit at the expense of making everyone fat and disabled longer term.

vel0city 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> I've seen things that say fructose has worse effects than sucrose

Sucrose is 50% fructose.

HFCS is ~42-55% fructose. Its "high fructose" compared to just straight corn syrup, which is 0% fructose (practically pure glucose).

mschild 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm unaware of any large scale studies on this topic. Both are pretty bad health-wise and should be avoided in regular large doses by anyone regardless.

I pointed it out because its often used instead of sugar for cost reasons.

QuercusMax 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember watching a video (something like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NY66qpMFOYo, but probably not that exact one) where they did the analysis and determined that Mexican cane-sugar coke contains the exact same proportion of sugars as HFCS coke - and it's because of the chemistry of how the sugars break apart in the presence of acid in the liquid.

So in theory an extremely fresh mexican coke might be different, but in practice you're getting the same thing.

porridgeraisin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not really other than the micronutrient dimension which is not relevant in most commercial preparations. What matters most is the other stuff you're having it with. You want to have fiber _at the same time_ as refined carbs/any kind of sugar/jaggery/honey/palm sugar/... In a coke you're just getting sugar and water which is terrible.

cung 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yes, you get pure fructose which is processed by your liver. With normal sugar you get a mix of fructose and sucrose, so less fructose.

Excessive consumption of fructose leads to fatty liver and is just generally bad for you.

tptacek 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This isn't true. Your body breaks sucrose into fructose and sucrose almost instantaneously; in fact, sucrose is so easy to break down that it happens in Coke bottles. Fructose is bad for you, but you're getting just as much of it from table sugar as you would from HFCS.

3 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
fl4regun 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

it is not "pure fructose" - they have different levels but usually it is 50% fructose syrups. Lots of fruits have similar ratios to that too, fructose isn't the problem so much as the quantity of it being ingested, but high quantities are glucose or other sugars are also bad when they come in liquid or otherwise highly digestible and fast absorbing foods. Also sucrose, which is table sugar, is indeed also 50% fructose.

vel0city 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

HFCS is a mixture of fructose and ~~sucrose~~ glucose. If it was pure fructose it wouldn't be as an effective of cane sugar replacement.

maxerickson 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Fructose mixed with glucose, not sucrose (the same typo is in several comments here). Sucrose is composed of glucose and fructose linked together.

When corn starch is processed, the produced syrup is nearly 100% glucose. Because fructose tastes sweeter, lots of corn syrup is further processed, converting much of the glucose into fructose, hence the name high fructose corn syrup.

vel0city 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Oof, yes, sorry, thanks for calling that out!

calvinmorrison 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

not to mention "Bac'n Bits" which my wife picked up as a salad topping which contains NO bacon, and is simply colored crispy soy bits with smoke flavor. Someone aught to arrest the manufacturer

Also in big letters "OLIVE OIL" with barely legible "mixed with 90% sunflower seed, canola and other oils"

square_usual 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Brother I don't know what to tell you. Chick'n, Bac'n, Be'ef etc. are well-known vegan susbtitutes for the pun'd meats. Most of them explicitly say they're vegan on the box. That's not shrinkflation, you just didn't read the package.

calvinmorrison an hour ago | parent [-]

My Brother in Christ I don't know why anyone would assume Bac'n bits are not made of Bacon...

I am reading the container it says

Bac'n Pieces BACON FLAVORED BITS Great Bacon Flavor! artificially flavored

Broken_Hippo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

To be fair, "Bac'n Bits" have been made of soy for decades - IIRC, they have always been. That's not them being cheap - they were designed that way. You just didn't realize. A lot of brands are similar - not all are vegetarian or vegan, but many are.

nemo 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've been vegetarian a long time, I remember eating Bac'n Bits in the 1980s since they didn't actually have any meat in them.

dogsgobork 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I remember picking up something at the grocery store that featured a large "No High Fructose Corn Syrup" claim on the front. The ingredients on the back listed "corn syrup" which fulfilled the letter of the claim, but not the spirit I would say.

jandrewrogers 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Corn syrup is fructose-free. What do you want them to put on the label? People avoid HFCS for the fructose in it. Corn syrup is glucose.

Corn syrup is one of the only plant-derived industrial-scale sweeteners that isn't substantially fructose. HFCS is made by adding fructose to it so it can be used as a substitute for high-fructose sweeteners like sugar, honey, fruit juice, maple syrup, etc.

vel0city 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If you see a bottle saying "OLIVE OIL" and its actually a mix of sunflower, canola, or other oils in small print that's a product illegal to be sold in the US. It has to be very clearly labeled its a mix.

If its labeled as olive oil it has to be just oil from olives. The "extra virgin" and related labels don't carry any real weight here in the US though. I do wish we'd enforce labeling standards on stuff like EVOO, maybe also require actual country of origin for that particular bottle instead of allowing them to list it may come from practically every olive oil producing country.

Please name and shame the product, and report it to the USDA.

kevin_thibedeau 2 hours ago | parent [-]

The usual trick is "made with OLIVE OIL".

vel0city 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If its a usual trick one should be able to find some usual examples. I've never encountered a bottle of oil in the US suggesting its olive oil when its really a blend. Maybe I've encountered a bottle that had a picture of an olive in the background along with other vegetables, but never something really trying to suggest its "olive oil". They almost always just have generic vegetables on them or soybeans or whatever. Can you share an example with me?

calvinmorrison an hour ago | parent [-]

Oh you gotta start shopping at the discount marts.

vel0city an hour ago | parent [-]

I do quite often, and have been for decades. Along with shopping at foreign/"world" grocery stores, higher end grocery stores, etc. Across several different US markets over the many years.

Once again, got any actual examples of this supposedly incredibly common thing?

leoc 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd be relatively surprised if the Mars bar's calorie density went up after it was ruined in 2002. The old Mars bar was a beast: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49245791 .

bluefirebrand 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

A lot of people feel like stuff tastes worse than it used to, too

That's obviously hard to measure because you can't do a blind taste test of a 20 year ago candy bar and one today, and people's tastes change as they get older. But worse ingredients making a worse flavor is possible too

TeriyakiBomb 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Over here in the UK at the moment you can. They’ve recently made huge changes to a lot of chocolate products in the space of a year or two. Especially cadburys which is now just at the legal definition of chocolate over here. Any lower and they legally have to call it “chocolate flavoured” which has already recently happened to a bunch of classic lunchbox chocolate bars. So shit.