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hackthemack 5 hours ago

Just my personal anecdata, it took my a while to put a finger on it, but it seemed like something started to change in products in the 90s. Bag of chips started to fill up with more air and less chips, candy bars got smaller, airlines started reducing seat sizes. Super huge discount? retail stores opened, that you usually needed a membership card. Walmart started offering the cheapest sourced product from around the world that was often just slightly inferior to what you use to be able to get, or the price on the higher quality item went up while the slightly lower quality item price went down. Washing machines started using all these cheap plastic parts that more easily wear down or break. Electronics started to get added to everything whether it is needed or not, usually for switches where the electronic part is cheaper than the mechanical equivalent.

And I realized, this is what people want, in the sense of this is what they will pay for, this is how they vote with their wallet. What I want is not this, but it is what society wants.

wvenable 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I disagree that it is what people want. Nobody wants a smaller chocolate bar for the same amount of money, more cramped seats, washing machines that break and need constant replacement, etc.

Massive corporate consolidation means that when you're looking at the rack of chocolate bars there's a good chance that just 2 companies made all of them. You have the illusion of choice.

None of this happened over-night. It's a slow steady financial optimization in all industries all at the same time. It's very hard to vote with your wallet when there's very little difference.

afarah1 4 hours ago | parent [-]

If there is a sustainable market for higher volume/quality/durability products for a higher price, it is in the interest of companies - new and existing - to capture it, as by definition they would profit from it.

Consolidation alone is insufficient to explain such a gap under the assumption of profitability.

asdff 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There is a spectrum of how good a product is between "doesn't work at all" to "falls apart in a couple uses" to "lasts five generations of your families lives."

Companies tiptoe this fine line between having something so shitty that people immediately reject it and so good that they never buy any more and the company folds. It has to be just shitty enough where they can guarantee future replacement sales but not so shitty to put people off right away.

Most of these durable goods products are therefore found in companies too small to satiate the demand of their entire market share too fast. And even then they fail all the time.

wvenable 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Economic theory would work a lot better if humans weren't involved.

It's almost impossible for a new company to join most of these markets; the major players are so large that they have influence over the retailers, the suppliers, and everyone in the middle.

But every so often successful higher volume/quality/durability products do manage exist for a time but are eventually bought out and the brand destroyed. This has played out over and over.

The market optimizes for profit growth, not for customer satisfaction.

fwip 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Customers are not perfectly-informed rational actors. The areas that companies are cutting costs on are precisely those that are most likely to escape the customer's notice - slightly smaller size, less durable, etc.

It turns out that it's more profitable to buy up an existing brand and slowly cheap out on the product (basically capitalizing the reputation) than it is to continue to produce a quality product.

bandofthehawk 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> And I realized, this is what people want, in the sense of this is what they will pay for, this is how they vote with their wallet. What I want is not this, but it is what society wants.

I don't think you can really say they want it, because in many instances they are manipulated or have no other choice.

HumblyTossed 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Just my personal anecdata, it took my a while to put a finger on it, but it seemed like something started to change in products in the 90s.

The electronic spreadsheet.

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
applfanboysbgon 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I believe the change you're observing is the result of the widespread adoption of computers. This is what a data-driven society looks like. Corporations have the ability to finetune the margins of exactly how much anti-consumerism they can get away with before upsetting enough people that a given anti-consumer decision isn't more profitable than not doing it.

In a sense, it is the people's fault for their current level of tolerance, but at the same time, a data-driven society will converge on an equilibrium just within the razor-thin margin of what people will tolerate, in the name of 'efficiency'.

reaperducer 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Bag of chips started to fill up with more air and less chips, candy bars got smaller, airlines started reducing seat sizes.

The phrase you're looking for is "value engineering."

There are also other factors.

Part of the reason that Pringles cans are mostly air is so that the soap company that makes them can sell fewer chips, but retain the same amount of visual space on the store shelf. The product is the billboard. Some brands pay for that space on the shelf, so they're going to use every bit of it.

inigyou 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Eh? Pringles cans aren't mostly air, except in a technical sense due to the spaces between the chips. They're stacked with chips from top to bottom.

reaperducer 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Eh? Pringles cans aren't mostly air, except in a technical sense due to the spaces between the chips.

Different products in different stores, I guess.

Here, and in every other American city I've lived in for the last 20 years, the tall can of Pringles is 50% air.

Do a quick web search, and you'll see hundreds of people complaining about it.

I once complained to the soap company, and got the expected response: They're sold by weight, not volume.

Your posting history indicates that you're not in the United States, so perhaps store shelf space isn't as valuable where you live.

nukethebay 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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