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spinchange 13 hours ago

The only thing Fable was given was a clean of copy of the ancient Greek. This is not a bastardization of other translations. I appreciate and value the critical feedback in any case (truly).

I find that Fagles is very majestic -wonderful, really- but he's also very liberal (poetically) and definitely did not limit himself to the same number of lines as Homer as this project did.

magicalist 13 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> The only thing Fable was given was a clean of copy of the ancient Greek. This is not a bastardization of other translations

FWIW I gave GPT-5.5 two lines of William Cowper's translation (long out of copyright to avoid any filters) without web search and not only was it able to identify it, it was able to continue it verbatim for roughly 30 lines at which point it went off course, but only by skipping like two books ahead. If I had supplied the original text as an anchor it presumably could have kept going.

I didn't try it with Fable because I'm lazy, but all these translations (presumably the ones within copyright too, given the lawsuits) are definitely well known by these models.

bnm04 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As another comment here points out, Fable likely had multiple translations, academic literature about the text, and maybe the original as well, in its training set. So even if only the original Greek was given to it as input it probably leveraged prior art when translating it.

veqq 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The only thing Fable was given was a clean of copy of the ancient Greek

Ok, but this clearly combines a few translations line by line if you work through it.

mcphage 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The only thing Fable was given was a clean of copy of the Ancient Greek.

…and all of its training data.

suddenlybananas 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You think Anthropic didn't train on some of the most famous translations of the Odyssey? Really?

spinchange 13 hours ago | parent [-]

No. I am saying that I had Fable do a literal word for word translation, and then did two independent review pass translations with models of different lineages and then had another adjudicate it. I am just saying what I did, that is all. It occurs to me as I am typing this that a human translator working on an Odyssey translation today would have similar "prior training," culturally. It's one of two of our oldest stories.

suddenlybananas 13 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes and if a human translator produced this work, it would be viewed as near plagiarism of Lattimore and Fagles. Compare this to Wilson. Wilson had surely read Lattimore and Fagles and yet produced something genuinely different (as much as I don't personally care for her translation). Claude just regurgitated others' half-digested work.