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xAI Ignores Laws and Profits: Rules for Thee, Not for Me(illegal.solutions)
77 points by speckx 35 minutes ago | 33 comments
culi 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

> In the latest example of corporations existing outside of the law, SpaceX (who is for some reason the controlling entity of xAI now) announced they'll be removing the illegal, unpermitted gas turbines they've been running at their Memphis Colossus data center... by July 2027.

This is the thing the HN crowd doesn't seem to get whenever a post is on here about data centers. They are often times doing outright illegal things and we simply don't have the mechanisms to punish "white collar crime" the way we punish other crime. The populist uprising against them is happening because people have tried everything else first

miyoji 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The HN crowd that doesn't seem to get it is like that because they're either white collar criminals themselves, or they work for such criminals.

etchalon a minute ago | parent [-]

"It's only a crime because it's against the law." - someone, inevitably

deepsun 8 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Yes, and big part of it is public is ok with that. For example, did you protest while Uber was breaking many local laws while growing?

palmotea 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

> Yes, and big part of it is public is ok with that. For example, did you protest while Uber was breaking many local laws while growing?

I never supported what Uber, either. Why would you assume anyone did?

Terr_ 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Similarly, I have a rant from last night [0] which connects it to Federal versus State laws and enforcements.

> TLDR: Corrupt crooks have sabotaged the normal careful legal-compromise route, so they are partly to blame when American communities seek hard-line measures instead.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49193606

culi 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

Or even state vs local. These developers have a LOT of money and often use it to pass state level legislation that prevents cities or counties from having a say in these projects.

Take Hood County where a Texas senator prevented them from considering a construction pause. Or West Virginia’s Power Generation and Consumption Act which completely banned local government oversight. Or Georgia’s HB 1059 Siting Mandates. I could go on and on but the point here is the playing field is not level. These data centers often have the power to completely skirt local zoning laws and regulation. And even when they do it illegally, there's rarely any consequences

jackb4040 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean it depends what you mean by "we". There are laws on the books to do so, they've just never been used against Epstein associates like Musk. We have a surface system of politics and laws, and then a deep system. Sovereign is he who decides on the exception.

culi 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The Colossus I Data Center was brought online in 122 days from breaking ground to operation. Some hail that as an achievement, but others (like myself) see it as a brutal pace to avoid having to answer pesky questions like "How will this affect the nearby area?" and "What sort of mitigation plans to do you have for the data center's waste?" The data center is powered by dozens of unpermitted gas turbines, which they initially refused to acknowledge were running until journalists and groups used thermal imaging to prove they were indeed on and spewing toxins into the air (including smog, formaldehyde, and other nasty things). This resulted in a suit from the Southern Environmental Law Center (SELC) on behalf of the NAACP for violations of the Clean Air Act. Their claim was that the company operated without public oversight or accountability for these illegal constructions and sought legal stoppage until proper accounting can be done of the effects of said turbines.

This is what I'm talking about. A non-profit and random journalists shouldn't be the ones holding them accountable in the first place. And a "lawsuit" is hardly accountability either. People need to go to prison for white collar crime.

> Enter the Federal Government and the Department of Justice, who pushed the courts to dismiss the suit as a matter of national security, stating that the xAI models were needed for "artificial-intelligence innovation that supports the Department of War’s military operations." So, residents are left without legal means of contesting these developments, barring individual claims and damages.

And this is the reason why a "lawsuit" isn't accountability. When the company can just pay some politicians to get it dismissed.

estearum 8 minutes ago | parent [-]

The federal government has tons of power but I'm like 99% sure the process for exercising it isn't "send a note to the courts saying this illegal stuff is actually super important for war n stuff" and then they just get lawsuits thrown out... right?

mft_ 3 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While organisations are only ever hit with affordable financial penalties, it's rational for them to weigh up the likely penalty vs. the opportunity cost of not doing something illegal in their decision-making.

If we want to prevent such behaviour (and in case it's not clear from the above, I think we should) then we either need far more brutally punative financial penalties, or for executives to be held personally and criminally liable in such cases.

throwaway27448 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Whoever thought it was ok to approve the purchase of xAI by SpaceX deserves to be hung, dug up, hung again, and repeated 4x over. I want this person's liver on my dinner plate.

palmotea a minute ago | parent [-]

> Whoever thought it was ok to approve the purchase of xAI by SpaceX deserves to be hung, dug up, hung again, and repeated 4x over. I want this person's liver on my dinner plate.

Did Musk even need approval? At the time weren't they non-public companies both pretty much entirely controlled by him personally?

maerF0x0 7 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Just like Newsom and French Laundry, it's the California way https://www.politico.com/states/california/story/2020/11/13/...

mrtksn 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I got the feeling that if there is an uprising against AI overlords, the rationale would be that it was illegally built, be it physically or intellectually.

The permanent underclass may decide that the deal which led to their situation wasn't right as not only their intellectual output but also their physical resources were illegally used.

exabrial 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hate to sounds like I'm defending them... but that's like every startup.

Taxi Pendants? Never heard of her

- Uber/Lyft

Gambling laws? Pssht

- Polymarkets

culi 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes, a lot of startups are only successful because what they are doing suddenly isn't illegal anymore because it's being done with an app. Cory Doctorow has written about this in his book Enshittification

BeetleB 17 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't like Elon Musk.

I don't like Grok or xAI. Or X. Or Twitter before.

I also don't like articles that try to bias readers with irrelevant details:

> This includes Grok, which has thus far been involved in controversies including but not limited to:

> Spreading antisemitic slurs and conspiracies while calling itself "Mecha-Hitler"

> Creating widespread non-consensual nude images of primarily women and children

> Acting as a mouthpiece for Elon's racist belief in South African white genocide

I stopped reading right there.

solid_fuel 15 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Interesting, you encounter a fact you don’t like and just quit reading all together. What a curious way to engage with the world.

tommica 9 minutes ago | parent [-]

Not really, its a valid way to manage ones time, because if you deem the message to not be I the quality you expect, you can just find a better article.

throwaway27448 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Sure, but you can hardly expect to interact with the world in a rational way if you explicitly decide to ignore it

awesome_dude 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Should people disengage with Hn because they don't like your opinion?

nearlyepic 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hardly irrelevant. The purpose is establishing a pattern of abusive behavior so this can't be dismissed as a "misunderstanding".

jalev 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Why would these be irrelevant when they're examples of Musk biasing the LLM? Do you think these things came out of nowhere?

throwaway27448 9 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What part offended you? The statement of fact?

solid_fuel 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

Many such cases

grey-area 16 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Was part of this incorrect?

jadar 6 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I stopped at "f*ck*ss". Irreverent drivel is unserious and a waste of time.

culi a few seconds ago | parent [-]

This isn't a formal publication. This is the type of post that used to be celebrated in hacker culture. The type of post that purposefully flounders respectability politics even if it's just for aesthetic forms of rebellion. Clearly it's offending the type of people it meant to :)

jackb4040 7 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

The applications are not tangential, they're an irreplaceable tool the hyperscalers relied on to get us where we are now. Pollution is bad but it's a different story if it's curing cancer vs making nudes of female politicians. This is like the fundamental principle of effective altruism, which everyone in tech industry leadership used to justify their negative externalities on the way up. Now that they're being asked to show results it's out the window.

I mean, that's the good faith argument anyways. I suspect you don't actually care, and just also believe in South African white genocide etc.

nearlyepic 22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fascists building fascist technology ignore laws? No way..

utopiah 16 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Who cares, Musk will soon solve also those pesky problems by putting data centers in space, it is easy. Also next year FSD but for real this time. /s

maerF0x0 3 minutes ago | parent [-]

solely about the FSD part of your comment. I got a chance to ride in a 2024 edition of the system this year and I was shocked at how good it was. Was it level 5? of course not. But from my very lay understanding of level 3 it seemd to have achieved all that I would have assumed a computer could reasonably do.