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MostlyStable an hour ago

I take the point, but I think the author picked a poor analogy. Cooking even an excellent steak is actually not that hard. In fact, I'd argue that it's among the easiest things to master/make at a top level quality at home. Does it require some modicum of attention and understanding? Sure. But starting with a high quality cut, owning a meat-thermometer, and knowing about reverse searing is about all it takes to reliably and easily get a near perfect steak every time.

There are far, far better cooking examples out there.

MerrimanInd an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I'm more of a coffee nerd than a steak aficionado but I've often made the comparison between those two. In both cases, the enthusiast considers their skill in making coffee/cooking steak to be a differentiator and they immerse themselves deeply into the process, skills, and tools. But for both coffee beans and steak the most important factor for a good end product is starting with high quality inputs. In other words, most of the work is being done by the farmers, the processors, and the quality of the raw stock (the cow or the coffee plant). Your job at the very end of that long value adding chain is to not ruin the hard work that others have put into it.

I'm not sure if this analogy holds up in the AI software metaphor that the author of the blog post is making.

SoftTalker 26 minutes ago | parent [-]

To achieve the best outcomes, I agree.

But even a cheap steak can be decent if it's cooked properly. And an expensive prime cut can be ruined by cooking it improperly.

onlyrealcuzzo 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I also don't think the analogy will age well.

It might take more than 10 years, but robots will almost certainly master cooking single pieces of meat.

It's substantially harder to reach self driving than it is to cook a "good" steak.

Sure, for probably quite a long time you'll be able to find someone who can cook a way better steak than the best robot, especially because taste is extremely subjective...

You can debate the horizon and the extent, but changes ARE coming.

Change is the only thing you can count on besides death.

jnwatson 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is a great analogy, as the vast majority of software tasks are CRUD or glue logic. At this point, relatively narrowly-defined tasks are a solved problem with frontier models. It is only more advanced tasks with broad scope and large context that frontier models have more limited results.

wheels 25 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agreed. I'm an avid cook. Sous vide circulators are cheap now, and so are meat thermometers. Doing a steak well is one of the easiest cooking tasks, to the extent that I won't bother paying top dollar in a restaurant because it's so easy to do restaurant quality at home. I could teach someone to cook a restaurant quality steak in a couple hours and a few practice runs.

turtlebits 21 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The problem is that not everyone can afford/wants to spend on a high quality cut. A good cook can make a cheap cut of meat taste great. There's no single right way of cooking a steak and that can include spices/herbs/marinades/oils/etc.

ch4s3 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

There's a floor on quality for producing a good steak. Below that floor you'll be better served preparing the meat another way entirely.

PaulRobinson an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All metaphors break at some point.

However, your example actually proves the point.

How many people who want a good steak know how to identify a high quality cut? Do they even know where to buy a high quality cut? What the different cuts are and whether they want rump, sirloin or fillet? How many kitchens have a meat thermometer? How many home cooks know how to use it and what the right temperature should be? How many home cooks know about reverse searing? Or timing? Or resting? Or seasoning?

Is it all learnable? Sure. But even something as simple as steak has nuance that needs to be learned, equipment deployed to go from "pretty good" to "great", experimentation and trial and error.

Steak is the simplest thing to choose to get started. It's also the hardest to get right.

Building an app is the simplest thing to choose to get started. It's also the hardest to get right.

So, honestly, the whole metaphor stands up pretty well for me, specifically because of your response.

MostlyStable 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

My point is that steak is very, very, very far from the hardest to get right. I'm not going to contest your argument about how hard it is to get right, I'm going to argue that innumerable other dishes are vastly harder. Because the quality ingredients are harder to find, because they involve far more steps, each of which is harder to judge, because often good recipes or instructions simply don't exist, etc. etc. etc. Every single difficulty that you imagine exists to make a truly great steak exists 100 fold for other dishes.

In my opinion, steak has gotten the reputation that it has because it's so easy to get top tier restaurant quality at home (relative to cooking more generally). It is easy enough that, with a little care, almost any one can master it if they decide to, and therefore lots of people try and end up caring, and discussing, and sharing tips, etc.

There are a whole host of dishes where true mastery, to restaurant level, is borderline impossible for a home chef, and so most people never even try.

I don't disagree that reliably getting the last 5% of quality out of a steak is non-trivial, but the idea that, relative to the entire world of cooking, it's particularly difficult is laughably incorrect.

danielmarkbruce 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Go to costco, buy prime filet. Put it in a ziplock in a sous vide at 130 for an hour. Drop it in corn oil at 425 for 30 seconds. Add some butter and salt.

That simple process, suggested by Nathan Myhrvold (former MSFT cto) in the modernist cuisine, produces a filet better than most restaurants.

pton_xd 5 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Reminds me of recipes like brining a turkey in Dr Pepper... sure it may taste fine, but I'd rather not eat food prepared in plastic bags with processed oil (or, soaked in a soft drink).

PaulRobinson 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

That "simple process" requires equipment most people don't own or know how to operate, an oil most people don't keep in their cupboards, and is suggested in a book most people haven't heard of by a tech CTO they would not recognise the name of.

Honestly this is like the Dropbox comment all over again. Everyone is missing the point, it's glorious. :)

Most people cooking steaks don't care about the optimal way to cook steaks, or want to find out.

Most people building software today don't care about the optimal way to build software, or want to find out.

That's TFA. That's the point. That's what we're discussing. :D

froh42 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I was just curious asked chatgpt:

How can I make a really great steak myself? What to look out for, what to do. Give me detailed instructions.

I got a really good answer (including - cut, temperature and reverse searing), so I probably won't even need understanding. (Oh - and yes, I can cook - the answer mirrors what I already know).

Yes, it was a very, very poor analogy, because cooking a steak is a well known and well documented thing where LLMS produce good output. They fail when you get off the beaten path and try to do something that's not "mainstream".

bluGill 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

AI has proved several times they can prove some complex math things that humans have been trying for decades so solve. They have not failed and have clearly done complex things humans cannot. Since humans have not done it before you cannot call it on the beaten path.

varispeed 17 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

How do you get around the idea of poisoning oneself? Keeping meat part raw feels uneasy.