| ▲ | CrzyLngPwd 2 days ago |
| All their fines are merely a cost of doing business, and they won't change their ways until the fines hurt. |
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| ▲ | xtajv a day ago | parent | next [-] |
| I appreciate recent EU regulations choosing to penalize corporations on the basis of a percentage of revenue. It effectively mandates a lower-limit on spend for budgeting purposes. Sure, that money might be spent ineffectively... but corporations will figure it out if their only options are to 1. Not invest in regulatory compliance at all and get fined for noncompliance. 2. Throw money at the problem, spend it inefficiently, and STILL get fined for noncompliance. 3. Throw money at the problem, spend it well enough to pass muster, avoid fines. |
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| ▲ | xtajv a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "They call them fines because if you can pay it, it's fine" |
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| ▲ | burningChrome 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is so true. When you have a billion users, you can literally lose hundreds of millions of users and it wouldn't make a dent. The only way is to get the government involved and regulate this and just keep hammering them with massive fines that really make a dent in their bottom line. For a lot of people, government regulation of this sort is not desirable, but at what point does someone need to drop the hammer to stop this? |
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| ▲ | ASalazarMX 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I guess you're used to standard billions (a million millions). A US billion would certainly suffer from losing hundreds of millions, you're talking about a double-digit percent. | | |
| ▲ | anamexis 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | I doubt they are saying any services out there have 1,000,000,000,000 users. | |
| ▲ | yetanotherjosh 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | 10^9 is the standard definition of a billion, it's very wrong to call 10^12 a "standard billion." You can say "long scale billion" if you want to refer to the definitively non-standard 10^12 billion. | | |
| ▲ | Terr_ 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | To quibble/add-nuance: The words have diverged into a false-friend [0] situation. It looks like the same word, but the correct/standard meaning depends on which language is being used at the time. If someone is writing English and puts "billion" for 10^12, that's a translation error, much like writing "my grandfather became pregnant when he realized he'd locked the keys inside the car." (Instead of "embarrassed.") Conversely, if I wrote a French or German sentence and put "billion" for 10^9, then I'd be the one making the translation mistake. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_friend | | |
| ▲ | yetanotherjosh 17 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, but we're speaking in English. If the definition of a same-sounding word changes in another language, it doesn't invalidate a point made within a language. It's fundamentally incorrect to say a standard billion is ever, in any modern context, 10^12, because we are speaking in English in 2026, and even the British mean 10^9 for the standard definition of a billion. |
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| ▲ | happymellon 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's a shame as we used the correct definition for almost 300 years until the US pushed everyone to switch to their system. https://www.etymonline.com/word/billion I would vote to revert it. |
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| ▲ | yndoendo 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Something like three strikes and the CEO, top executives, and three primary share holders go to jail while forcing the company to dissolve seems to be the only solution to removing bad actors in corporate settings. | | |
| ▲ | tadfisher 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Careful, I was called a "radical" on this site for suggesting a corporate death penalty. Because jobs are so important that when a corporation risks its own existence so it can break laws, dissolving the corporation as punishment is the government's fault and not the corporation's. | | |
| ▲ | tremon a day ago | parent | next [-] | | A corporate death penalty does not necessarily imply all jobs are lost. The government can simply nationalize all assets, use standard vulture capital methods to restructure the business, them auction each business unit off to competitors. Only first-tier management and investors would be directly impacted. | |
| ▲ | yndoendo 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | I am not worried about that all nor any down votes. Empathy for other people and the environment is a sign of intelligence. Those that don't think of how their actions affects those around them and the neighbors they will never meet nor the environment have an lack of intelligent. Those that lack empathy are the same that idolize bad actors like Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. Greed and the desire for it is a high indicator of lack of intelligence. There is a difference between being well off and greedy. I would argue that Steve Wozniak is a great example and better of the two Steves from Apple to highlight this. I have created jobs and brought in international commerce to where I live. I produce solutions for companies I don't even know their names. I have kept people safe and will never know their names nor will their families know mine. None of which has deluded my empathy for others, human and non-human, and the environment. My previous statement was codified in another thread. This statement is a two part. One to re-enforce my empathy and a social experiment. I feel sorry for those that lack empathy. Empathy is the only way to put yourself in someone else's shoes. Intelligence is a by-product. There is no other way to live a life you can never have nor experience. Label of _radical_ is something I welcome. When former co-workers and people you meet want to shake your hand before leaving after giving them constructive criticize, it is a surreal experience. Not when it first happens, when it repeats itself. |
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| ▲ | zelphirkalt 2 days ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ah, what a pleasure to imagine that scenario, however unlikely, for just a few seconds. People profiting from running unethical ads and child sexual abuse material, for whom financial gain is more important than any ethics, laws or health of others, who frankly speaking don't give a fuck about anyone else but themselves amassing more money, being held responsible and being moved to a new, very different kind of home behind bars. It would be as if angels started to sing and cleanse planet Earth just a tiny little bit. We would have reason to rejoice and celebrate. On the streets! On the roofs! Everywhere! Celebrate that the law still has teeth, and is upheld. It would also be a nice measure to heal other businesses from many bad practices. | |
| ▲ | s1artibartfast 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | As long as we can also shoot tresspassers and thieves, you got a deal. | | |
| ▲ | happymellon 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Why are you desiring the ability to murder someone? | | | |
| ▲ | inigyou a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Okay, let's start now. Hey! This comment section is my property! Bang bang bang bang bang. |
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| ▲ | alex1138 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | > When you have a billion users What if they make a shadow profile for you? Do you count as a user? What if you've tried to delete your account and you can't? (I meant a real account here, not even a shadow profile. People have had the things reactivated years later) |
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| ▲ | Ajedi32 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] |
| As it should be. If the cost of fixing the problem is greater than the amount of harm the problem is actually causing to society, then it shouldn't be fixed. Set fine amounts accordingly. (Whether we actually do set fines this way is, of course, questionable. And probably this particular problem would get fixed even if there were no fine merely because of the reputational damage it's causing, but I'm speaking in generalities here.) |
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| ▲ | mplewis 2 days ago | parent [-] | | you don't think one of the world's biggest media platforms disseminating CSAM is causing meaningful harm to society? | | |
| ▲ | Ajedi32 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Yes it's meaningful, and the fine amount should reflect that. But hypothetically, if it's (just throwing a random number out there) 1 image in 50 billion, and Facebook gets more benefit from the 50 billion good images than society loses from the 1 bad one, and society recovers its loss from Facebook via a fine, but the fine isn't big enough to make them change their behavior, how exactly is that a problem? | | |
| ▲ | callc 2 days ago | parent [-] | | The problem is equating profitability with what societies want and don’t want. Morality exists outside of the business world (and it should inside as well). Further, it is a societies’ right to enforce the boundaries of what business are allow to do / not do. For example: banning ads along roads and scenic areas. Idk, the whole idea of “how much fines will I get doing X shitty business practice” is just gross. I’d rather see harsher enforcement to keep businesses on the straight and narrow more often than not. | | |
| ▲ | Ajedi32 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | Perhaps, but when you're operating at any significant scale accidents become a statistical certainty. 0 screw ups, ever is not a realistically achievable goal. And if some limited number of screw ups is allowable, that necessarily becomes an insurable cost that amounts to "just the cost of doing business", so I don't really see the complaint. Concrete example: If you run a construction business, even if you take all the required precautions, statistically you're going to get 9.2 of your employees killed for every 100,000 man-hours they work.[1] Is that proof all construction companies are evil, and we should shut them down for murdering their employees? Is it a problem that having to buy life insurance is "just a cost of doing business" for these companies? [1]: https://www.bls.gov/charts/census-of-fatal-occupational-inju... | | |
| ▲ | happymellon 2 days ago | parent | next [-] | | This is the reaction to the FAANGs obviously not caring that they are publishing CSAM. They will be given more leeway for small scale "screwups" if they can show that they are working to reduce large scale issues.
As it is we are dealing with organisations that don't give a shit, so peoples attitudes reflect that back at them. | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond a day ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yes, screw ups become a certainty. But these are screw ups that the company doesn't meaningfully care to fix. Just as we'd have an issue with a company that has OSHA findings that they continue to ignore. But with Facebook, "Our automated review found nothing wrong with [this ad that implies a young child performing sexual activities]". Also, speaking of statistics, what? > statistically you're going to get 9.2 of your employees killed for every 100,000 man-hours they work. No, you're not. This would mean if you employed 50 full-time employees you'd expect 9 of them to die per year. What that graph actually says: "In a population where there are 100,000 construction workers, you can expect 9 fatal workplace accidents per year". | | |
| ▲ | Ajedi32 a day ago | parent [-] | | Yes sorry, man-workyears not man-hours. > "Our automated review found nothing wrong with [this ad that implies a young child performing sexual activities]" That's also a screw-up, and they should be fined accordingly, proportional to the amount of harm this screw up is causing to society. If there are any practical steps they can take to fix the problem, that should incentivize them to do so. But if for whatever reason it turns out the only possible way to fix such screw-ups is for them to hire 100,000 employees to manually review every single ad, and the cost of that both exceeds the cost of paying the fines and the opportunity cost of turning off this feature completely, so they choose not to do that, is that a problem? It's like if you tried to insist construction companies evacuate all workers from the construction site before operating any heavy machinery. Maybe that would save some lives, but it would also be completely impractical. | | |
| ▲ | FireBeyond a day ago | parent [-] | | > It's like if you tried to insist construction companies evacuate all workers from the construction site before operating any heavy machinery. Maybe that would save some lives, but it would also be completely impractical. There's a degree of "consent" here - yes, certainly, one can choose not to be a FB user. But if the sites you visit utilize FB's ad program, well, you can still get hit. Construction workers understand that their work is not zero risk (as are many jobs - I used to work in Fire/EMS), but that is tempered by OSHA etc., that have teeth. You can't (at least in theory) keep operating a construction company that operates unsafely and outside regulations or laws and say "it's all good, I'm just going to pay the fines" - OSHA will shut you down and render you liable to criminal prosecution. If OSHA was dismantled yesterday (and state-level agencies), and people knowing how some corporations value the dollar versus people, there'd be a lot less people willing to work for riskier companies or in riskier professions. > It's like if you tried to insist construction companies evacuate all workers from the construction site before operating any heavy machinery. In an admittedly limited subset of situations, this happens: "Lock out/tag out" systems that can physically prevent the operation of certain equipment if anyone is in the risk zone or performing maintenance. In some cases this is literally akin to a padlock workers carry at all times and put through the power switch of machinery when they go to work on it so someone else doesn't come along and turn it on. |
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| ▲ | nathan_compton 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | Pretty sure this isn't what they are teaching at the best business schools. |
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| ▲ | inigyou a day ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think we should restrict the term CSAM to M created by CSA, not AI hallucinations. | |
| ▲ | Dylan16807 2 days ago | parent | prev [-] | | First let's not use an unqualified label of "CSAM" when talking about generated images. But if a thousand people see some ad then the amount of damage is not much compared to their overall business. I'd go for a healthy penalty on top, and adding in more transparency to make sure they don't hide the real extent of the problem, but it's still probably small to them. Getting Facebook to put in a reasonable amount of blocking effort is good. But it wouldn't fully fix the problem. | | |
| ▲ | happymellon 2 days ago | parent [-] | | They could also put in place a real reporting button to remove CSAM. Instead it's a "I don't like this" and they will continue to ignore it. |
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