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iandanforth 5 hours ago

The most interesting point of the article for me is that this vaccine appears to be a series of shots which act as a curriculum for the immune system. Each one slightly different and targeting a different stage of B-cell development. I've never thought of vaccine series working like that, so it was a new and impressive idea.

dist-epoch 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The way the HIV evades effective antibodies is by tricking the immune system to generate antibodies for fake decoy targets that the virus will immediately mutate.

So each turn, B-cells are presented with the latest version of the virus, they generate various antibodies to the various parts, and are graded at the end by how well the generated antibodies bind to the virus. The problem is that you have 1 million cells which bind strongly to the fake decoy targets and 1 cell which will bind not as strong to the real effective target. So this 1 cell never gets "promoted".

What this "germline targeting" multi-shot vaccine tries to do is to introduce a series of targets that stimulate that 1 in a million cell which will attack the right part of the HIV virus, so it gets "promoted", so if the real virus appears, the body will still go for the decoy targets, but will also generate a lot of these really effective 1 in a million cells, which got "promoted" previously by the vaccine.

To be more precise, you need to "guide" a lets call it B1 cell that all of us have in our repertoire to mutate into B2 then B3 than B4, because this B4 version will be capable of creating the right antibodies for HIV, the issue being that the intermediary states, B2, B3 are not naturally promoted so you very rarely get to the B4 state without this intervention.

calf 34 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What's the risk of collateral damage or autoimmune issues from this kind of process, it sounds more difficult to evaluate for safety because it is more complicated.

dist-epoch 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's still the body doing the work, the antibodies will still be tested for self-attack in the regular ways, so there shouldn't be any impact. But immunity is super-complicated, so who knows...

mrguyorama an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

HIV isn't the only virus that generates decoys to trick antibody development, so having techniques that bypass that decoy strategy is very useful.

Melatonic 31 minutes ago | parent [-]

What else does this?

christkv 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is the way a lot of modern cancer vaccines are being developed. The idea is to create custom vaccines in the future targeting the patients specific cancer. So they are therapeutic vaccines. Obviously some cancers cannot be reach by a vaccine or are so aggressive that they overwhelm the patient before they can help.

dekhn 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I work in pharma and a coworker asked if they could use my code (a model inference server). I asked what they were doing and it's an ML model for determining clinical dosing for a cancer trial. They sequence a person's cancer, then develop custom RNAs that train the immune system to eliminate that cancer (similar to https://www.nature.com/articles/s41392-026-02769-3) which they inject into the patient.

I would like to thank all the scientists who have dedicated all their hard work and ingenuity to eliminating the impact of cancer. Also, fuck cancer.

epistasis 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm not aware of cancer vaccines that use this sort of b-cell priming, though I've heard lots about mRNA vaccines, as well as neo-epitope based cancer therapeutic vaccines. Are you analogizing the neoepitope approaches to the B cell progression here? That is somewhat similar, but the chain of new vaccines does seem quite different and novel to me.

mohamedkoubaa 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well, they kind of all work that way, it's just that most of the curriculum occurs naturally through interactions with wild pathogens

mullingitover 3 hours ago | parent [-]

From what I understand, random interactions with wild pathogens can prime the immune system in the wrong way, leading it down the wrong path. This is why some people can get lucky with immunity and be super resistant to flu, because they happened to luck into a response that targets a common factor in most flu strains. Other people have bad luck and target some area that mutates frequently, and they proceed to get walloped by every flu strain, every year.

This is why it's hard to make a 'super vaccine' for flu, becuase it takes many rounds of shots to retrain some people's immune systems once they've latched on to the wrong recipe for antibodies.

mrkstu 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As someone whose had rheumatic fever, your immune system can definitely prime itself for the wrong target.

mohamedkoubaa an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Right I'm saying it's always path dependent not that it necessarily improves outcomes.

An analogy of this is having the wrong math instruction in middle school could make your math classes harder at the university level.

api 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

All vaccines are training data for the immune system, which is a learning machine whose operation is a little bit like a genetic algorithm. It generates and sieves variation using a vocabulary of pre-encoded building blocks to fit the targets it's presented with.

It's an incredible system, and a product of probably a billion years of evolution since the first multicellular organisms had to protect themselves from infection.

parhamn 4 hours ago | parent [-]

[flagged]

the-grump 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It certainly reads like it. Bots are everywhere now.

bluechair 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Seems normal to me.

kingkawn 4 hours ago | parent [-]

“Doesn’t look like anything to me.”

Der_Einzige 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

metalliqaz 3 hours ago | parent [-]

what does that mean?

shevy-java 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I do not see what is impressive here at all. The immune system constantly yields new antibodies targeting different epitopes - all the time. THAT is what is impressive, not multi-vaccines trying to induce shifts towards certain epitopes over others.

hydrogen7800 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Are you saying that the result of millions of years of evolution is more impressive than decades of medical research?

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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