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m_ke 5 hours ago

Yeah some real main character energy from Dario as usual.

I'll never get why he thinks China would just sit there and let the US dominate them in AI when all it would take is a few of their boats blockading Taiwan to put a stop to it all.

rubslopes 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This Onion meme is perfect; you could easily replace Sam with Dario: https://theonion.com/sam-altman-if-i-dont-end-the-world-some...

brokenmachine 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What exactly happens to a "losing" country when it has been AI "dominated"?

crossroadsguy an hour ago | parent | next [-]

You already have examples. Venezuela, Iran, Ukraine, Libya… maybe Japan? The list is sort of long. Juxtapose or something.

alightsoul 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Why is the US so scared of this fate? To the rest of the world, they're tecnofeudalist monopolists.

brokenmachine an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

And here I was thinking that all of those had nothing to do with AI.

crossroadsguy 6 minutes ago | parent [-]

[delayed]

3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
PangXJ 43 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

or you can image, what exactly happens to a "losing" country when it has been a small clique "dominated"?

wbl an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

11 carriers are not just for show.

11 minutes ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
sterlind 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

wouldn't stop AI companies from continuing to develop using their current infrastructure.

the West could retaliate by halting shipments of photoresist and other materials to China.

meanwhile, Intel second-sources Nvidia and starts pumping out GPUs.

the economic fallout would be devastating as trade wars and export bans on both sides make Trump's "Liberation Day" tariffs look like NAFTA.

chrismsimpson 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The rest of the world would likely side with China. The export ban on Fable wasn’t even extended to five eyes countries.

US is going to find itself isolated and irrelevant. And not a moment too soon.

matheusmoreira 5 hours ago | parent [-]

I do wonder what the world will look like under a chinese hegemony though...

marcus_holmes 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

China is very inward-looking, though. It's not really interested in world domination in the same sense that Europe was or even the USA was/is.

nativeit 2 hours ago | parent [-]

China has been aggressively developing infrastructure and financial services all over Africa and the rest of Asia.

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-24-106866

fnord77 an hour ago | parent [-]

resource extraction

stealth colonialism

a34729t 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

better dim sum, hopefully. the local chinese food is a crime against gastronomy.

petre 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Keep an eye on Central Asia and Pakistan then? They are heavily infuenced by China.

chrismsimpson 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You’re already seeing it. Strategic bilateralism.

verdverm 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We are moving from unipolar hegemony to multipolar. There will be upwards of a dozen poles in time

matheusmoreira 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Doubt. China is clearly on a level of its own compared to virtually every other country out there other than the USA.

verdverm 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I find it unlikely to be a duoply of hegemony for long, some countries to watch are Germany, Japan, India, Nigeria, and Brazil. You could broaden the geography to continents were I expect major players to emerge on each.

We are only a few decades since the "end of history" and much has changed. What do things look like beyond 2050?

matheusmoreira 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Brazil

Brazil is basically the world's soy farm. It's at least half a century behind the times. I still have no idea how it managed to insert itself into the BRICS economic block. The notion that it's on the same level as China, India or Russia is just comical.

verdverm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Brazil is basically the world's soy farm

To reduce a culture and country like this comes off as bigotry

In example, Brazil has the #3 airplane producer in the world

Or consider why the US is doing all it can to prevent their payment system from becoming widely used?

I was intentional about putting the perspective in the future over today as the poles of the world are evolving

owebmaster an hour ago | parent [-]

OP is one of many Brazilians that hates Brazil, which ironically is the reason why the country historically can't grow to its full potential

verdverm 41 minutes ago | parent [-]

s/bigotry/fatalism/ ? (in the same sense of colloquial usage with Russians)

44 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
TheArcane 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

certainly better than this one. Look at Africa under western neocolonialism vs China's infrastructure loans

thesmtsolver2 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

As someone from India and someone who knows people from Tibet, Chinese hegemony will be much much worse.

There is no HN equivalent in China where users advocate that US hegemony will be better.

alightsoul 2 hours ago | parent [-]

On the other hand, India is enemies with China and Tibet is a highly oppressed region. I wonder what the average Chinese in china thinks.

ido 22 minutes ago | parent [-]

The average German in Nazi Germany probably didnt think the Nazis were too bad either (of course the average citizen wasn't Jewish, gay, communist or other undesirables). That the average Chinese think things are “just fine” doesn’t mean they are.

lenerdenator 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

And that's going just swimmingly [0]

[0] https://www.indiatvnews.com/news/world/chinese-manager-beats... (possibly NSFW, I can't see the video in my browser but be warned)

vhantz 2 hours ago | parent [-]

There is no good imperialist power, there is no capitalism with a human face, there will never be. The UK murdered millions in India, Ireland and all around the world in their time. The US did the same. The only reason China isn't openly doing the same right now is because they are still the underdog and they still need cordiality to get through the door, just like the UK and the US did in their time. The solution is to rid the world of imperialism and capitalism as a whole. As long as there is a profit motive running through everything, international relations will be in the form of wars (military or economic). Only under socialism can the people of the world truly pool their resources together to build up instead of destroying each other.

greekrich92 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

No worse than under US hegemony

thesmtsolver2 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Much much worse: see Tibet or Hong Kong

owebmaster an hour ago | parent [-]

How is Hong Kong worse than say, Puerto Rico?

verdverm 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> the West could retaliate by halting shipments of

China quickly retaliated last time by stopping shipments of rare earths and magnets. The West has no answer for this, really up the river without a paddle for such critical supply chain elements.

0cf8612b2e1e 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I was led to believe that the US does have internal sources of these, but they are largely undeveloped. For years the processing could not economically compete with China so shutdown.

Which is to say, given internal subsidies, the US could eventually produce some on its own.

Unless I misunderstood the situation.

verdverm 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I believe we both share this understanding, the problems are

1. China controls ~90% today

2. The US will find it difficult to build out because of how dirty and environmentally damaging mining and processing are.

I did see some research last week about a better way to process rare earths, but it is still research and will need to be industrialized.

Regardless, it will take many years (decade+?) to become self sufficient and China is already willing to and increasingly restricting them

5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
windexh8er 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Dario is more of a threat to the US, in terms of advancements in AI, than China. In Dario's mind anything that can't be controlled competitively is a threat to Anthropic, so he positions his FUD strawman so that Dario doesn't have to worry about the competition. And then he can artificially inflate token costs so his IPO can happen. Dario doesn't actually care about ethics, alignment or availability of LLMs - he just likes to use those words to sound like he does. Yet we've all seen how Anthropic actually acts vs what they say.

The scary part very few are talking about is that every compute device is Turing complete. So everything from the phone in your pocket to a DGX Spark is a threat to national security now since, technically, every device can run any model (how well is not a question of concern when you start to argue hardware should be gated just the same as Dario likes to gate models). I mean, along these lines of thinking Linux should not be available to the masses! What if someone runs some code that's not approved by the benevolent dictator for life, Dario? People will say: that can't happen, but the reality is it already is. If everyone has reasonable access to compute to run models that are mostly capable comparative to burning Anthropic tokens, why wouldn't they? It's risk reduction and price protection. Yet we can't buy those systems because of future production already being purchased by these organizations.

But back to the models themselves... We played this game with Metasploit back in the day: many who had no clue claimed exploit tools should be regulated and only available for use by those blessed, illegal elsewhere (I believe the closest this got was the Wassenaar delegation in the US, but only through collateral inclusion of "cyber weapons "). Except in that timeframe the authors of these tools weren't advocating for protection. Today the world is fine, systems improved because of security FOSS tooling. The same thing will happen with LLMs. Unless, that is, Dario gets his way. I'm not a fan of Altman but I think he's standing back watching this play out knowing what Dario is doing: either he succeeds and OAI benefits or Dario ends up the Chicken Little of AI and Anthropic fails to launch (their IPO).

The reality is Dario is only doing this because this is a real risk to his business. China's constraints in building competitively have given them an advantage: they are doing more with less. And if you think that their distilling from US models was in any way anti-competitive or illegal, then I guess maybe "deal with it", much akin to Anthropic, Google and OAI's response around taking the (copyright) content in the first place with no repercussions.

People who don't work in the AI bubble don't care at all about any of these people. They could all be gone overnight and the world would continue to innovate, probably in a much more productive manner, without them.