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bananamogul 8 hours ago

"Companies may only destroy unsold clothes and shoes in limited cases, such as when items are unsafe or damaged, counterfeit or infringing intellectual property rights, or are rejected by charities or donation schemes."

Nike's unsold, defective, or returned shoes are ground up to make carpet padding. They're processed by the truckload in a large grinding machine.

It seems that under these rules, this would be illegal - ?

altairprime 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Yes, with the exception of ‘unsafe’ where a shoe is used and/or non-cosmetically defective.

The law reduces wasted production inputs — materials, energy, and labor — as well as production outputs — wearable shoes, here. This directly regulates a practice by brands where they destroy wearable clothing rather than see their latest branded fashion worn by people who bought it at a discount or received it for free. This also directly regulates corporations from using grinders, melters, incinerators, landfills, and overseas ‘recycling’ (=landfills) to replace warehouses with retailers, accelerate product cycle times and derive FOMO sales benefits without the cost of reducing their batch sizes. The apparel industry is destroying something like one third of what it produces, so it’s certainly earned regulation of its ‘this shall not be sold’ decisions to its disfavor.

I would expect Nike in the EU market to either increase product prices and/or decrease release intervals until their inventory supply is lowered to meet demand while claiming that it’s the EU’s fault that their hottest shoes aren’t yet available, rather than maintaining their existing cycle times and quantities by donating their wearable, branded, wealth-signaling shoes to be worn by poor people. (Perhaps that’s already begun?)

kelvinjps10 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Wouldn't they have to make discounts or sell it therefore lowering the price.

altairprime 7 hours ago | parent [-]

Nike certainly could choose to sell at a discount rather than grind unsold shoes into rubber. They have a wealth-signal brand to maintain, however, so they will resist doing so if at all possible.

Schiendelman 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nike is famously one of the less wealth signalling shoe brands. Until recently I don't think they had a product for sale for more than ~$220 at all.

SpicyLemonZest 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is it really the case that Nike is a wealth signalling brand? In the investigation I think you're referring to (https://www.fastcompany.com/90697259/nike-appears-to-be-shre...), I find Nike's side of the story much more plausible: if they find in processing returns that a shoe appears to have been altered, they prefer to reuse the shoe materials for other purposes, rather than carefully inspecting individual shoes to analyze what the alterations are and whether they might compromise the shoe's performance.

altairprime 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Regarding ‘wealth signaling’, a similar lens to mine would be ‘brand dilution’, which is certainly a more widely-accepted concept in business management; see also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48959809

The EU has disagreed with Nike, and the law is now in effect.

SpicyLemonZest 6 hours ago | parent [-]

The law is indeed in effect. Perhaps the new supply will revitalize Nike's Refurbished program, and European consumers will buy lots of used sneakers at discount prices. My bet is that it will not, and they'll mostly buy a slightly lower supply of new shoes that were made more expensive to cover the costs of refurbishing everything.

I do agree that this law will have a more meaningful effect on luxury clothing brands, and I wouldn't be terribly surprised if certain kinds of fast fashion become impractical to offer in the EU. More power to them, as long as people don't start complaining in a few years when Zara's trendsetting new line of blouses isn't available in European stores.

ryandrake 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It’s probably been 20 years since I’ve even noticed what brand of shoes anyone was wearing, let alone processed that information into some kind of economic class judgment. Is this really still a thing?

altairprime 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Brand signaling is taught to Marketing bachelor graduates and is taken for granted as a legitimate and real thing in their profession. I am rather brand-blind myself but I tend not to extrapolate from my own experiences to that of others.

embedding-shape 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a lot more information about it here: https://environment.ec.europa.eu/strategy/circular-economy/e..., and the full (current) text being here: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

As far as I can tell (although I'm no lawyer, sorry Nike), the point is to reduce waste and to increase recycled content in use. With these two main objectives, what Nike is doing seem to be fitting within that. It's not the "destruction" itself that is bad, but what you do with that after the destruction, recycling it doesn't create waste (or maybe, as much waste) as outright destroying+throwing all of it.

pfdietz 8 hours ago | parent [-]

What is considered recycling? Is convert the clothing into fuel pellets considered recycling? What about thermal decomposition for feedstocks for chemical manufacture (and what if 75% of the mass isn't useful for that and is instead burned in turbines for cogeneration)?

Down-cycling is a thing. Even aluminum and steel get down-cycled.

I have no sympathy for recycling fetishism.

embedding-shape 8 hours ago | parent [-]

From previously linked text:

> The concept of destruction as outlined in this Regulation should cover the last three activities on the waste hierarchy, namely recycling, other recovery and disposal. Preparation for reuse, including refurbishment and remanufacturing, should not be considered destruction. Preventing destruction will reduce the environmental impact of those products by reducing the generation of waste and by disincentivising overproduction.

Basically, does it end up as waste or does it end up being repurposed in some good way? If the former, we should find a way of getting rid of it, if it's the latter, it's A-OK!

altairprime 7 hours ago | parent [-]

To clarify without using the word ‘waste’ into two simple bullets:

1. Destruction is conversion of any usable product X to any non-X form (even if the new form is usable).

2. Destruction is prohibited (for large businesses, right now).

Usable is not perfectly defined and will be a judgment call, but one can construct a common sense set of ‘what is unusable?’ definitions that an inspector or judge would accept — so long as sellers have not explicitly caused such outcomes:

- Product lacks structural integrity (a loose thread doesn’t count, a missing sleeve does count)

- Product is contaminated (tried on and didn’t fit doesn’t count, motor oil stains does count)

- Product is unsafe (tried on and didn’t fit doesn’t count, underwear returned with safety liner removed may count, product has been worn for more than try-on period may count)

Note that, for example, the EU is likely to say ‘launder it first, then donate it’ for products that are worn and returned but can be safely donated after laundering; so they are specifically aware of some of the loopholes that corps will aim for first.

vsviridov 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Create a holding company and register some trademarked design. Apply said design to the product. License the design to the manufacturer.

When the manufacturer wants to destroy unsold stock - revoke the license to the design. You can now fully legally destroy unsold stock for "violating ip rights"

sixhobbits 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This seems kinda backwards, as far as I know charities and donation schemes are overwhelmed by clothing donations. Our problem isn't that we are destroying clothes that could be used somewhere else, the problems are manufacturing low quality clothing that lasts 2-3 wears, and fast fashion where people buy clothing for a specific event.

If they want to achieve their goals they should be aiming for demand destruction on _new_ clothes, once the clothes are unwanted it's too late.

But seems better to somehow incentivize fabric recycling and higher quality clothes. Even expensive clothes fall apart these days.

jay_kyburz 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I'm no expert, but I think the charities are overwhelmed it because very few people want secondhand clothes. They have a lot coming in and not much going out.

I hope this will result in lots of _new_ clothes being sold very cheaply in discount outlets.

LaundroMat 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't that recycling instead of destroying?

Wicher 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Turning shoes into carpet padding is probably "downcycling". I think recycling would mean most of the shoe would be used for new shoes or something of similar complexity, retaining the grade and value of the input materials.

Downcycling is when you reuse something for a less refined purpose. For instance you can use contaminated plastics (im the sense of somewhat mixed types, bits and bobs of labels etc) to make humble park benches, but you won't be then reusing that low grade park bench plastic to make the Hubble space telescope with.

Still, downcycling into carpet is better than dumping the shoes on a coral atoll of course. Yet it's a step below recycling.

jjice 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess it comes down to if that is considered recycling. I'd personally consider it such, but not sure what the legal definitions will be.