| ▲ | sen 3 hours ago |
| I’ve owned a lot of Gopro cameras, having done video capture for a variety of motorsports, and they just got too expensive for what you get. You can be more expensive if you’re better, or you can be worse if you’re cheaper, but they’re both the downsides while living purely off brand recognition. They also blew up in a time where there wasn’t any real competition. Sony had action cameras but they were bulkier and expensive, and didn’t have the features of GoPro. These days other brands give better quality video in better quality hardware and more functionality, for cheaper. |
|
| ▲ | Robotbeat 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| GoPro is a US company designed in U.S. with manufacturing in Thailand, China, and Mexico. Insta360 is a Chinese company designed in Shenzhen and built there, too. People think this doesn’t matter, but GoPros are used all over in aerospace. If we replaced the brand with Insta360, that puts a big attack vector all over the place. A similar pattern happened with drones with DJI, intentionally killing all non-Chinese drone brands. And with BambuLabs (founded by ex-DJI) with 3D printers (the only good non-Chinese printer that doesn’t cost 10-100x as much is Prusa, and they’re facing extremely strong headwinds). Legitimately better Chinese products (incredible engineering) that have massive industrial policy support, probably industrial espionage support (as in the case of DJI for certain), massive influencer marketing campaigns, and near zero cost of capital. When China wants to deindustrialize non-Chinese industries for strategic and/or natsec reasons, they are incredibly good at it. (And note it’s not US-only, China targets basically ANY brand that isn’t Chinese. China absolutely does this to Europe as well… and you can see them doing it in real-time with automotive.) The only surprising thing to me is how people just act like it’s not happening. I guess for people who don’t have any experience working on federal government adjacent aerospace stuff, the idea of natsec considerations for IT hardware seems entirely abstract, but it’s incredibly real if you do. |
| |
| ▲ | adrianN an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | If your country’s industrial and defense policy relies on individual consumers making choices that are worse for them on almost all metrics, it’s time to think about on worse payroll your politicians are. | |
| ▲ | computerex an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | People know it’s happening. What do you expect an average consumer to do about it? Pay more out of pocket due to the potential national security risks? | |
| ▲ | gchamonlive an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Reads to me like it's free market doing its job, if you think of countries as companies. US just needs to step up its game. | |
| ▲ | tomaskafka an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Simon Wardley has been shouting this from the rooftops, including detailed per industry timelines when China will take over, in 2015. | |
| ▲ | xorcist 19 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > the only good non-Chinese printer that doesn’t cost 10-100x as much is Prusa They hardly have time to compete, busy as they are with foot-shooting practice. | | | |
| ▲ | an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | dismalaf 18 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As someone with both an Insta360 camera and a Bambu printer, I feel it, would love to buy GoPro and Prusa, but the value just isn't there. For one, I had a GoPro whose sensor broke after about 20 minutes of recorded. I ended up getting 3 different replacements, all of which also broke. In the end I just forgot about it when my home burnt down in a wildfire. I got an Insta360 with better picture quality that's also been more reliable for a similar cost. And I would have loved to buy a Prusa printer but I got a Bambu P1S combo for $600, an equivalent Prusa plus the $300 shipping to Canada would have been ~$2500 CAD. For making trinkets for my 3 year old son plus the few random other things I'd make it's not worth it to pay 4x the money. Maybe it'll forever be this way due to the differences in cost of living but I do feel as though there's a million barriers to entry to building a business in North America, at least a business that's not fully online. | |
| ▲ | TheArcane 12 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | boo hoo china bad, buy my more expensive and shitty american product |
|
|
| ▲ | microtonal an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’ve owned a lot of Gopro cameras, having done video capture for a variety of motorsports, and they just got too expensive for what you get. Sounds very similar to another US company - Garmin. They are still popular, but have been raising prices a lot every generation, because for a long time there was no real competition [1]. At this point, Garmin watches that have mapping support have an introduction price of >600 Euro. Even at that price point, zooming or panning maps is excruciatingly slow (sometimes taking up to 10 seconds to re-render) because they have used the same CPU/MCU for multiple generations while increasing screen resolution. They also haven't really innovated a lot as of recently and are moving some new functionality behind a subscription. This has opened a large gap for Chinese competition. Now you can get a Coros Nomad that goes head-to-head with models like the Garmin Enduro for 350 Euro. They don't have full feature parity yet, but they are so rapidly adding features that they will at some point. Also, in contrast to Garmin, they seem to be using modern microcontrollers, so panning or zooming a map is insanely fast in comparison, while still having ~20 days of battery for daily use. [1] Of the traditional competitors, Apple Watch Ultra and Galaxy Watch Ultra have gotten closer, but are nowhere near the battery life, robustness, mapping support, mapping + workout support, etc. |
| |
| ▲ | CWuestefeld an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > Garmin watches that have mapping support have an introduction price of >600 Euro. Even at that price point, zooming or panning maps is excruciatingly slow I just got a Garmin Instinct 3 Solar. It does mapping, and cost me about $300 US. You're right that it's slow due to a wimpy processor. But the processor isn't because they're too lazy to innovate, but because they have something sipping tiny amounts of power so that I can get a battery life of several weeks. | | |
| ▲ | wartijn_ 23 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I think they meant watches that can show actual maps, not just a line or arrow with your route. That feature has always been reserved for the more expensive watches. | |
| ▲ | m4rtink 30 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | A modern powerful MCU should be able to do both due to advanced power saving modes. Or youcan even have a power MCU and very low power standby MCU. |
| |
| ▲ | loloquwowndueo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It’s interesting that you mention Garmin - they’re a good example of pivoting from your original market (standalone gps units for cars) once you see a nimble competitor eating away at it (gps-enabled smartphones). Garmin would be dead if they had held fast on the standalone GPS market. | | | |
| ▲ | radiorental an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | I have a love/hate relationship with Garmin. As a motorcyclist and sailor, their hardware is second to none in terms of build quality and robustness. The ability to look down at my Zumo GPS on my motorcycle in a rain storm on a dirt road and have it respond to my wet dirty glove is a close to magic as you will get. Then there's the watches, the Instinct range is ok but I have a button that doesn't pop back out, my wife's vivoactive suffered the well known touch failure. However, as a UXer I will say that across all products the software interaction model sucks balls. "China" can and will produce hardware to meet a price point, its not that they can't build good products. As soon as "China" figures out how to do good UX, the last moat western companies have will fall. | | |
| ▲ | idiotsecant 35 minutes ago | parent [-] | | 'China' can do UX just fine, when the incentive is there. Part of the reason UX seems rough, outside of low quality products where it's a tertiary consideration, is cultural differences. User interfaces are part of culture, like everything humans touch. Those preferences shape the resulting tech. Sometimes those choices are less optimal for western users with their own preferences. https://youtu.be/WSMFnJnY7EA?si=NMz0wd94gM5abxyj |
|
|
|
| ▲ | QuantumNomad_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > These days other brands give better quality video in better quality hardware and more functionality, for cheaper. I had a GoPro many years ago. Eventually sold it because I needed the money for other things. Been thinking about buying a new action camera eventually. Got any recommendations? The one that interests me the most of the ones I’ve seen is the Insta360 X4 Air plus an underwater case for it. I want to be able to bring my camera swimming, bicycling, hiking, etc. And I think 360 degree cameras are pretty cool. Hopefully it’s not just a gimmick that loses its appeal after a few hours. |
| |
| ▲ | bartread 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | As someone who watches a reasonable amount of PoV outdoor activity footage shot on helmet cams and the like (base jumping, mountain biking, skiing, snowboarding, etc)… I don’t love watching 360 videos uploaded in the raw because of the perspective distortion. I’m assuming it must be possible, if the resolution is good enough, to post process a portion of each overall frame into an undistorted 1080p (or better) view of the key view of the action, but a lot of people don’t do this (perhaps it’s much more difficult or time-consuming that I’m imagining, or perhaps many viewers enjoy the distorted 360 view more than I do). Just my two cents, YMMV, etc. | | | |
| ▲ | LeifCarrotson 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you're willing to put a little time into video editing, a 360 cam is great. The insta360 tools can make that a little easier if you want something simple. If you just want to store a snapshot of the moment as it was captured, a regular camera that you pointed in the right direction is better. | | |
| ▲ | Saris 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The downside is the 360 editing tools are kind of sluggish and not great to work with, and even at 8k res in-camera, the export for a 'normal' looking FoV is pretty low quality compared to a normal action cam recording in 4k. I have an insta360 X5, it's neat and there's a lot of flexibility, but it does have downsides. The app is also a pile of crap, it's crammed full of ads, social media junk I don't want, it's slow as molasses, and the size of the app is massive. | |
| ▲ | herbst 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I'd love to film in 3d. But being dependent on a single app of a single company (that is not even a good app right now) is literally the worst feature for a hardware I could imagine. | | |
| ▲ | dylan604 42 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Why are you dependent on a single app? Pretty much any NLE has ability to edit 3D footage. |
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | fiatpandas 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| >other brands give better quality video in better quality hardware and more functionality, for cheaper Would you mind providing a recommendation you have first hand experience with? |
|
| ▲ | Forgeties79 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It also doesn’t help that you could probably get by with a hero 4 black even today lol Man I still can’t believe how bad the rollout of the karma was. I remember at the time everyone in my professional circles was buzzing about it. Then they started literally falling out of the sky. Feel like they never recovered |
| |
| ▲ | 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | palata 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Then they started literally falling out of the sky. Yep, something must have gone horribly wrong with QA. | |
| ▲ | antisthenes 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Apparently (checked with AI), Hero 4 Black was the first camera with 30 fps 4k video and was released 12 years ago already (how time flies) Frankly, after 4k/30 and 1080p/60, there are strong diminishing returns, because most people these days watch videos on their phones in suboptimal conditions (or older desktops that may still be on 1080p), so what are they going to do with your 5k/6k video? Sure, you can keep doing minor improvements to sensors and optics, but for a consumer it will not justify getting a new model for $500. Also, competing with smartphone cameras which have gotten better over the years. I bet 99% of people would not be able to tell a gopro video from a phone video. | | |
| ▲ | kylecazar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Transparency on AI use is a sin now, I guess. | |
| ▲ | neves 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The greatest advantage of greater resolution is that you can cut for a better framing. But who has time to go through good of video for editing? | | |
| ▲ | dylan604 39 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That larger image size allows for more aggressive image stabilization as well. |
|
|
|
|
| ▲ | gib444 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > These days other brands give better quality video in better quality hardware and more functionality, for cheaper. Such as? |
| |
| ▲ | Saris 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | DJI Osmo cameras are good, I still have my original Osmo action and while the quality is a bit behind now, the battery life and general stability and menus are better than GoPro IMO. I've found DJI cameras also don't discharge their batteries when sitting, my gopro 11 black is somehow always dead when I grab it even after a few weeks, but my osmo action is still at ~70% after a year. Insta360 also has some neat offerings, but their software/app is absolutely abysmal, it's crammed full of ads and takes up several GB of space. It also requires an account login. |
|