| ▲ | Avicebron 14 hours ago |
| They should just lead with people don't have any money to buy things because wages aren't increasing to match living expenses. It cuts back some of the fig leaves |
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| ▲ | darth_avocado 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Everything costs too much. I went to the grocery store yesterday I spent $50 to get a packet of bread, a dozen eggs, two yogurts, two yellow onions, a jalapeno, two tomatoes and a bunch of parsley. This covers breakfast for 2 days for my partner and I. In 2022, $150 would fetch the entire week’s groceries for the two of us. We are paying more, while having to change what we eat with cheaper/unhealthier options. Otherwise we would be spending almost $1500/month on just groceries for 2. I used to eat high quality fish every week, now it’s beans and cheaper cuts of chicken. And we make good money, but our wages have gone down since 2022 when adjusted for inflation. |
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| ▲ | pllbnk 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I'm in Europe. I have been tracking my all expenses to the cent religiously since 2010 in Excel sheets. I also haven't changed my grocery habits much since around 2020, except very recently when I actually started looking at the deals (discounts) and buying more generic stuff. We haven't been eating out much (~5 times per month on average) Obviously, it varies month-by-month but my family's (2 adults, not counting the child) expenses on food have risen by around 100% since 2022. | |
| ▲ | Brybry 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I feel like some of that is maybe shopping at the wrong place. Which the article I guess covers by saying people are addressing by changing retailers to save money. Where I am in the US, you can get a dozen eggs for ~$2 at Walmart. A loaf of bread with 22 slices is like $2 to $6 depending on store brand vs name brand. The canned refried beans I buy are still $1.30 to $1.50 for 4-5 servings. Some stuff is way too expensive (beef) but other food items seem at normal prices to me. | | |
| ▲ | darth_avocado 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t have Walmart to go to but I do have a Costco. But like I mentioned in a different comment, I can’t do normal groceries there because of the space I have + how much I can consume before it all goes bad. I still shop for a lot of things at Costco, but the point I was trying to make was comparing my same exact situation from 4 years ago to today. The article points to shopping around and buying cheaper brands to make it work. But that’s the point, you didn’t have to do it, but now you do because things are too expensive. | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When you have to start shopping down market because you can't afford your normal store that is an indicator that you have less buying power now. Saying 'everything is fine, you just have to shop down market, you can no longer afford your normal store, you need to go to the poorest store now because you are poor now' is just rephrasing what is being said. | |
| ▲ | pseudohadamard 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It also depends on what sort of stuff you're buying. For example here (non-US) the cheapest white bread is USD1.20, but you can bet that's the worst, most unhealthy garbage they can make. Something with high fibre is more like twice that. | |
| ▲ | bmitc 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > Where I am in the US, you can get a dozen eggs for ~$2 at Walmart. Some people prefer to shop at less conglomerate and evil stores. |
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| ▲ | reliabilityguy 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Where are you located? I think even NYCs groceries are not that expensive. | | |
| ▲ | darth_avocado 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | SF Bay Area. I will say that these are not Costco prices or a store where I’d be couponing, but it’s not Whole Foods either. I would love to go to Costco but unfortunately I do not have the space to accommodate the bulk quantities that I’d have to buy and consume. | | |
| ▲ | adelie 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | hi! i live in SF. at trader joe's, these items would be priced at - $5 (bread loaf) + $5 (eggs) + $3 (yogurt) + $2 (onions) + $2 (tomatoes) + $1 (jalapeno) + $3 (parsley) = $21. i'm rounding up on eggs and bread since you might be buying a more expensive variety, and guesstimating parsley because i haven't bought it from trader joe's before. everything else is pulled from my last few shopping trips. if you're spending $50 on this, i would highly recommend finding a new grocery store. | | |
| ▲ | darth_avocado 9 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I don’t have a Trader Joe’s around me. Sure I drive 20 mins away to one and then spend another hour going to a different place to shop for all the things Trader Joe’s doesn’t have, then yeah I could get things for cheaper. But that’s the point. You didn't need to do this a few years ago and now you do. | | |
| ▲ | disgruntledphd2 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yeah, I'm in my 40s and I never understood why people hated inflation so much until 2021/22. I get it now, it's massively disruptive and annoying. |
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| ▲ | dieselgate 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | It seems inflated roughly 40% to prove a point but regardless stuff is still too expensive and I don’t eat meat.
Don’t know though yesterday was reading some comments here about people literally saying “$50k income a month in SF and you still can’t buy a house,” stuff like that is ridiculously out of touch. | |
| ▲ | beAbU 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | $5 a loaf of bread is truly diabolical. |
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| ▲ | thegrim33 10 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >> Chooses to live in one of the highest cost of living, most expensive areas in the entire country >> Complains that groceries are expensive | | |
| ▲ | darth_avocado 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Bay Area was the highest cost of living areas in 2022 as well. You seemed to have missed the point. |
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| ▲ | BearOso 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The article is from Bain Capital. Of course they're going to ignore the obvious reason and blame something else. They raised prices more than people are willing to pay. Unlimited profit growth can't exist. |
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| ▲ | markoman 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Bain Capital and Bain & Co. are separate, but what's interesting is that the former was spun off from the latter in 1984 as a way to apply and profit from the learned business juice (i.e., wisdom?) of the Harvard & Wharton MBAs that they hire. |
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| ▲ | cm2012 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is much more likely due to competition from food delivery services. Spend on which has shot up dramatically because at least in the United States average incomes have actually risen substantially since 2015. |
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| ▲ | inigyou 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| By living expenses, you mean rent. You should just say rent. It cuts back on another fig leaf. Rent is the only part of our economy in which money is forcibly taken at gunpoint by someone who never did any work to earn it. The groceries at the grocery store are expensive because of the grocery store's rent, too. |
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| ▲ | somekyle2 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We seemingly have very different experiences with rent.
All rent I've paid was agreed upon prior to me being charged it, and guns were never involved.
The people I rented from did the work of owning/managing the building and providing it for my use. Maybe this isn't a noble way to earn money, but I found it to be a really useful service, and it seems not dramatically different than most services I pay for (how much incremental work is Netflix doing for my behalf? what work is the bank doing to earn my loan?). | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Indentured servants agreed to be indentured servants. At gunpoint. It's literally illegal not to pay rent. They will put you in jail if you don't sign a rental contract. Consent under duress is not consent. | | |
| ▲ | bot403 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is hyperbolicly dramatic. Nobody will put you in jail of you don't sign a contract. And if you don't pay rent it's a beach of contract and civil matter. It can be very hard to force people to pay rent if they're not paying. All you can do is kick them out, eventually ,there is no jail. Your dramatic post makes it seem like the cops can kick down your door to get rent. That's simply not true. | | |
| ▲ | inigyou 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It isn't dramatic. If you don't pay rent you're homeless. It's illegal to be homeless. So you go to jail. | |
| ▲ | ButlerianJihad 9 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | But it is true, from a certain perspective. You're either homeless or you have a domicile somehow. So, many people enter into leases or rental agreements. Then they pay rent to maintain that home. If you don't pay rent, you don't get arrested, but the constable is actually a law enforcement officer, and the constable is the #1 official who is involved in evictions, so yes, they will "kick down your door" to dislodge you from a place where you haven't paid rent. And then what do you do, when you're homeless and on the streets? In most urban centers, it's illegal to sleep outdoors or trespass ("urban camping" laws), and so the homeless are often subject to arrest or sanctions because of the nature of their plight. So the only logical response here is to get housed, pay rent, and keep paying, just to stay on the legal side of things. Ask me how I know. |
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| ▲ | grebc 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Some people think society owes them. | | |
| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 9 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, society owes a social contract where if you work you can afford to live and have a roof over your head, food to eat, and clothes that aren't Temu plastic rags of worse quality than dystopian sci-fi fiction 'clothes issued to people on basic'. |
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| ▲ | tzs 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Walmart groceries have also gotten more expensive and Walmart owns the land that the vast majority of its stores are on. | |
| ▲ | 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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| ▲ | fragmede 12 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Can't ignore the GLP-1 choice though. If a customer spends, say $200 month on a GLP-1, and saves that much by not buying groceries, that also results in a grocery slow down. |
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| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
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| ▲ | bmitc 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Wages is one thing. Our sitting president inacting vast amounts of tariffs and other asinine decisions is another thing and is the reason why no one has even less money these days. Ever since he took office, my available funds have dwindled drastically despite reductions in spending and increases in salary. |
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| ▲ | dyauspitr 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Meat is like $30/lb. What a joke, I see almost no one at the butcher counter in grocery stores anymore. |
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| ▲ | wahern 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | AFAIU, when beef prices started to spike a year or two ago, ranchers decided to cash in and slaughter much of their herd, including breeding stock. This was on top of a decades-long decline in herd size, and a recent drought that has driven up costs of maintaining a herd--another reason why they decided to cull and cash-in. The current situation will be the new normal for at least the next several years. Chicken hasn't risen nearly as much, just moderately more than inflation, perhaps because of a shift of demand away from beef. There also seems to be greater price discrimination going on with beef than previously, with larger spreads between, e.g., bulk ground vs vacuum packed ground vs whole cuts. | | | |
| ▲ | gruez 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >Meat is like $30/lb. ??? Maybe if you're buying organic grass fed steaks every day, but chicken/pork is still available for less than $5, especially on sale. Kroger's weekly ad for Dallas, TX shows: 1. beef for $6.97/lb 2. pork for $1.99/lb 3. chicken breasts for $3.99/lb, or organic for $6.99/lb https://www.kroger.com/weeklyad | | |
| ▲ | atmavatar 11 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > 1. beef for $6.97/lb You'll want to specify what type of beef. The price per pound varies immensely based upon what cut you're getting. $6.97/lb is a price I can only assume refers to ground beef. Once you start talking about steaks, though, the price climbs rather quickly. Near me, sirloin regularly clocks between $14-16/lb, and NY strip/ribeye at the best of times may go on sale for close to $20/lb, but they also regularly exceed $30/lb. | | |
| ▲ | christophilus 10 hours ago | parent [-] | | I get ribeye pretty regularly for $10/lb on sale in South Carolina. But, yeah. Normally it’s $15/lb here. Not something I’d be eating regularly. |
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| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Yeah my local Safeway has been having whole chickens, leg quarters, thighs or drumsticks for 0.99 per pound. Still that price as of today. |
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| ▲ | saltcured 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | One of the most common interactions I witness at our local supermarket butcher counter is the guy explaining to yet another customer that the advertised weekly special sold out before lunch a couple days prior. | |
| ▲ | irishcoffee 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We buy a side of beef at a time from a farm down the street for $6/lb, up from $4 a few years ago. Can’t buy beef any other way. | | |
| ▲ | indoorfish 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | $7.35/lb where I am with a $600 deposit. It ends up being about $2k all things considered. It may even out, but a lot of folks don't have that kind of money around, ~5% of a yearly salary isn't nothing for a lot of people. I completely forgot about needing a chest freezer and space for a chest freezer..that's also not nothing. | |
| ▲ | dyauspitr 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That’s before or after trimming? Because you could do crazy arbitrage at those prices. I get trimmed beef for $14/lb at the farm down the street. | | |
| ▲ | irishcoffee 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | I believe that’s hanging weight, so after the butcher it’s probably closer to $9, but still a bargain and a half compared to what I see at wal mart, which is the only place we buy groceries because of cost. |
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| ▲ | billfor 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| They should just lead with saying that obesity rates have tripled since the 1960s and maybe they will start declining a bit now. |
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| ▲ | estearum 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Very well-supported argument by the fact that obesity tends to accumulate in the well-off who can afford lots of food, while poor folks tend to be slender. So yeah, clearly lower spending on food would reduce obesity. | | |
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| ▲ | quantified 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Probably cuts back on some of the epic waste on the consumer side. Hope that ripples to cutting down waste throughout the system. Paying for stuff that isn't consumed is by definition waste. |
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| ▲ | nvme0n1p1 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | Consumers are the last group I would blame. https://www.usda.gov/about-food/food-safety/food-loss-and-wa... > food waste is estimated at ... 133 billion pounds ... in 2010. USA population in 2010 was 311M. 133B / 311M = 427 pounds per person. I sincerely doubt the average consumer throws away 427 pounds of fresh food in a year. | | |
| ▲ | jandrewrogers 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That "waste" is almost certainly excess production that can't find a market + spoilage. It is entirely normal for farmers to literally dump their crops in these cases. Everyone in the supply chain does it to some extent. Lack of market and spoilage makes it unavoidable. When I lived in farming communities there were massive piles where people dumped excess crops. | |
| ▲ | hadlock 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | When I got married our food waste probably tripled. My food waste as a single guy was significantly less than married. When I had kids it probably tripled again. Much like a horse to water, you cannot explain to a 3 year old that if they don't eat all the banannas before tomorrow, they will go bad. We probably throw out 1-2 lbs of fruit a week, which is ~100 lbs a year right there. The kid might have ate 2 lbs of blueberries a week for six months, but surprise, they hate them now! I can't count the number of half-full glasses of milk I've found in the last month, probably averaging 1 per day. Kids are extremely inefficient eaters unless it is covered in sugar or chocolate. | | |
| ▲ | entropyie 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I have two kids and this is pure bollox. They'll eat what they are given if they are hungry enough. Or eat the leftovers yourself. Cook the fruit and make compote. We never throw out edible food, virtually zero waste. Just make an effort. | | |
| ▲ | hattmall 13 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | You are the outlier then, the situation described was spot on for all the parents I know. | | |
| ▲ | entropyie an hour ago | parent [-] | | I think if you take a global outlook, you'll find I am not the outlier.
Wasting food is a recent Western phenomenon. |
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| ▲ | irishcoffee 13 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Same here, 3 kids, we don’t waste food. As an aside, we’re all slender. We just figured out how much of what to buy each week, plan our meals, etc. I also personally like eating leftovers for both breakfast and a packed lunch, which probably helps a bit. | | |
| ▲ | disgruntledphd2 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I also personally like eating leftovers for both breakfast and a packed lunch, which probably helps a bit. That definitely helps, I'm pretty bad at eating leftovers unless I put them in a new meal so we end up with more food waste than necessary. Kids completely changing what they'll eat on a weekly basis also has a pretty large impact. | | |
| ▲ | irishcoffee 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Kids are difficult, I can attest to that. Realizing you’re not feeding your kids poison because you’re eating the same meal, is also a difficult realization. I see nightmare kids via friends/neighbors, and all
I can think is “stop treating your kids like they’re your coworkers, they’re your kids and they actually yearn for structure and ‘discipline’ in the sense that you are their whole worldview structure” Kids want structure, rules, boundaries. They will test them, which is good. | | |
| ▲ | disgruntledphd2 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > Kids want structure, rules, boundaries. They will test them, which is good. Oh yeah, totally. That being said, our eldest was super picky and changeable (and often didn't eat enough so it was a little concerning) so we often ended up with lots of staples that she one day decided she didn't like :shrug: Mostly fixed now that she's older, but I can see how food waste happens. And more generally, if the kids get excited or distracted, there will often be waste. |
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| ▲ | mrob 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | >they don't eat all the banannas before tomorrow, they will go bad This one specifically has a good solution: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_bread | | |
| ▲ | altairprime 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | The missing datapoint is that households are having to work more labor-hours per banana every year for decades, so the energy necessary to cook banana bread is in direct competition with the energy necessary to purchase bananas. Atomic Era assumptions that a household has the time, energy, capability, appliances, and electricity budget to cook banana bread no longer reliably hold in the U.S. and cannot be taken for granted as accessible to all families. (If this seems like a negative feedback loop, it is; see also food deserts, substitution of Added Sugars for more expensive-but-nutritional calories in the diets of our majority-obese population, and so on.) | | |
| ▲ | 9x39 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | If the point is that cost/calorie has risen too much, it's substantially worse in the cost/calorie sense to eat prepared food out of the home versus cook at home. As an aside, a quickbread like banana bread happens to be one of the simplest to make with some of the cheapest shelf-stable ingredients, and almost every home has an oven and access to the ingredients. For those who like it, I highly recommend this recipe (Mark Bittmans): === 8 tablespoons (1 stick) butter, plus some for greasing the pan 1 ½ cups all-purpose flour ½ cup whole wheat flour 1 teaspoon salt 1 ½ teaspoons baking powder ¾ cup sugar 2 eggs 3 very ripe bananas, mashed with a fork until smooth 1 teaspoon vanilla extract ½ cup chopped walnuts or pecans ½ cup grated dried unsweetened coconut === Step 1 Heat the oven to 350 degrees. Grease a 9- by 5-inch loaf pan. Step 2 Mix together the dry ingredients. With a hand mixer, a whisk, or in the food processor, cream the butter and beat in the eggs and bananas. Stir this mixture into the dry ingredients; stir just enough to combine (it’s okay if there are lumps). Gently stir in the vanilla, nuts, and coconut. Step 3 Pour the batter into the loaf pan and bake for 45 to 60 minutes, until nicely browned. A toothpick inserted into the center of the bread will come out fairly clean when it is done, but because of the bananas this bread will remain moister than most. Do not overcook. Cool on a rack for 15 minutes before removing from the pan. | | |
| ▲ | altairprime 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | Worse in the raw cash outlay per food calorie, maybe, but you also have to adjust for food deserts — ancillary costs to acquire groceries @ IRS rate of $0.725/mile, nearest grocery store is 1.5 miles away, which doesn't sound like a lot but it sure does add up! — energy budget decisions for 15 minutes of food preparation vs. 15 minutes of extra study/rest/sleep, heat output of one hour of oven vs. lack of air conditioning at home during extended multi-week summer heat waves, and so on. I'm one of those on a much-reduced budget without access to a home oven (kitchenettes and single-top induction burners are wonderful things), without central AC at home (I do miss it but AI replaced my former industry), and live in a food tundra (slightly higher food density than a desert but more from luck than urban planning), so if it's all the same to you, I'm just going to ignore the recipe and move on. |
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| ▲ | doodlebugging 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm a person who will definitely not eat a banana that is past its prime. I completely understand the option to just throw it out since bananas are inexpensive and widely available. I have a solution that we have instituted here at home if you would like to cut waste on bananas and other perishable fruits and vegetables. We bought a food dehydrator. I was initially skeptical about the utility of the device but after several years of ownership I find it is one of the most useful tools for anyone who cooks at home. Bananas, even those that are well past the point where I won't eat them, are ridiculously delicious when sliced and dried. The flavor concentrates so that a single banana chip can be like the old Lays Potato Chip slogan - no one can eat just one. This also works great for berries like blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, goji berries, kiwi fruit, apples, plums, peaches, nectarines, cherries, etc. We buy them fresh or grow them here and before they reach the toss stage, we dry them for future use. Some of the things are also great frozen. I have several pounds of berries from this year's crop in the freezer now and quite a few available for adding to granolas that we make here at home. We have made fruit leathers in the past using strawberries and the flavor is better than the store-bought products. I grow and dry vegetables too. Some of them are also freezer items. Good luck with the grocery bill. | |
| ▲ | aziaziazi 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ripes bananas makes the best cakes or pancakes ! I got your point though. | |
| ▲ | apercu 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Buy frozen fruit? |
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| ▲ | qdotme 14 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | 1.5lb / day? I'd wager it's quite equally in thirds, would love to see the data. I'd believe 0.5lbs/day/person in my household - cook enough for everyone to have seconds, but most of the time it's tossed (sometimes after some time spent in the fridge/freezer hoping for a reheat); stuff bought but inedible (chicken bones, etc).. I'd believe similar in the distribution pipeline (just look at how much stuff are in the discounted aisle just about to fall off sell-by date + obviously moldy goods), and I'd believe similar in the production pipeline. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 14 hours ago | parent [-] | | No food gets thrown out in my house. We have trash from plastic and paper but food is consumed, by somebody. If it hits the expiration date then it’s today’s quick meal or dog food. I try not to throw away anything that is edible. | | |
| ▲ | qdotme 14 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Probably was that way before we got married and had a kid. And before our dog started getting older and we needed to watch what she eats. Now the notion of "cook fresh every day" is a thing (rather than reheats), we try to do keep leftovers but eventually we run out of space for them. | | |
| ▲ | reactordev 13 hours ago | parent [-] | | absolutely. Cooking smaller meals for the family to ensure it's all eaten or having no-cook alternatives for afterwards (hello graham crackers!) if you're still hungry. Normally I try my best to portion for who's going to eat. If I'm cooking for myself, its usually a one-pan meal. |
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| ▲ | apercu 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Or composted to feed my garden. I hardly throw out any garbage. |
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| ▲ | 14 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | [deleted] |
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