| ▲ | Painting the sides of railroad rails white to reduce derailment(up.com) |
| 81 points by zdw 11 hours ago | 44 comments |
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| ▲ | atourgates 8 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| In a somewhat related practice, some roads in the Tour de France this year have been painted with "white shit" (rider Tom Pidcock's words) in order to combat the asphalt melting in the heat, with the unfortunate side-effect that it seems to be slippery and several riders (including Tom Pidcock) crashed going around a corner when the lost traction. Coverage here: https://velo.outsideonline.com/road/road-racing/tour-de-fran... But of course, this was done in response to past serious crashes that occured because the asphalt melted. So, it's sort of a damned if you do damned if you dont scenario for the organizers. |
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| ▲ | Animats 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Pepe's Towing in Los Angeles reports asphalt collapses where loaded semitrailers are parked with the landing gear down. On hot days the concentrated load of the landing gear sometimes punches through the asphalt.[1] This is why truck dock areas are usually paved with concrete. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LBrULmCGJfc | | |
| ▲ | jordanb 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Years ago Chicago started putting concrete pads on the road at bus stops because the busses stopping in the exact same spot repeatedly was carving ruts into the asphalt. | | |
| ▲ | cwillu 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah, my city is currently going through every bus stop in the city, redoing the pavement in concrete. Construction season has been nasty for us this year :p | |
| ▲ | superb_dev 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | A city I used to live in did the same thing when they refurbished all the major bus stops. I always wondered why | | |
| ▲ | bombcar 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Also if a vehicle is stopped and the driver turns the wheel (with power steering this isn't hard) - it will eventually drill holes in asphalt - you can sometimes see this in house driveways where someone turns around. |
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| ▲ | andrewflnr 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Motorcycle riders also report their sidestands sinking into asphalt on very hot days, to the extent that many of them carry some kind of wide weight-spreading thing to put under the stand. Apparently a face plate (?) for an electrical junction box works great. | | |
| ▲ | pacbard 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Usually, a crushed soda can is good enough to prevent the kickstand to sync in the pavement. You can usually find a can in a random parking lot. That, or find a strip of concrete. That's why sometimes motorcycle park on the sidewalk in front of big box stores on a hot day. | | | |
| ▲ | esseph 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | My bicycle did this as kid in the summer |
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| ▲ | thaumasiotes 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > But of course, this was done in response to past serious crashes that occurred because the asphalt melted. So, it's sort of a damned if you do damned if you don't scenario for the organizers. Well, not entirely. You always have the option of repaving the roads with cobblestone or something. |
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| ▲ | amiga386 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| At least they're doing something. I couldn't believe the state of US railtrack: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9X2A2f6E5DI Just go slower! We don't want to pay for maintenance. What's the worst that could happen? You derail and your toxic payload catches fire and poisons the neighbourhood? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Palestine,_Ohio,_train_de... |
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| ▲ | pixl97 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Maintenance is expensive, profits are now! | | | |
| ▲ | kmeisthax 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's funny you mention that, since I mentally associate Union Pacific with the worst of US rail disinvestment. They're the ones that were patient zero for the "precision scheduled railroading" brainworm that led all our railroads to downgrade track and lengthen trains to insane lengths[1]. Or at the very least, they were at the top of Amtrak's delay-shaming list until a few years ago[0] when they somehow improved??? ...anyway, I'm now genuinely wondering how the hell rail in such an awful state can still maintain the correct gauge for trains to run on!? [0] https://www.amtrak.com/content/dam/projects/dotcom/english/p... [1] Salt Lake City is trisected by Union Pacific freight rail. We have some of the largest city blocks in North America, but they're still not long enough to avoid a single stopped Union Pacific train blocking multiple crossings for hours on end. If you want to really, REALLY hate trains, move to the west side of SLC. Also, talk to your politician about the Rio Grande Plan. |
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| ▲ | DaiPlusPlus an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > “When people first saw it, they said, ‘Why haven’t we been doing this for a hundred years?’” Doerr said. “That’s the kind of question I love to hear, because it means the culture of safety innovation is alive and well.” Union Pacific haven’t been doing this precisely because they don’t have a culture of innovation… |
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| ▲ | warumdarum 44 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This of course beeing the effect of seemlessly welded together rail with nowhere to go.. |
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| ▲ | tiagod 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| "That’s huge. If you’re not fighting the sun’s heat, you dramatically reduce the risk of the rail shifting.” Am I misreading or does this say the opposite of what they meant? |
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| ▲ | adrianmonk 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the safety officer meant that white paint prevents the rail from heating up. The heating of rails contributes to problems with derailment. If the heat isn't a contributor, that heat is one less thing you have to fight (as in account for). But the photo caption paraphrases him and says that the white paint fights (as in prevents) the heat, which uses similar words but a different logic to it (but the same overall meaning). If I've got that right, then I think the blame lies on whoever wrote this article for making it confusing. | |
| ▲ | earth-tattoo 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | You are misreading. Basically the white paint is "fighting the sun's heat". |
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| ▲ | vivzkestrel 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| - maybe consider electrifying the entire freight network of the USA like some of the other countries have done (mind you very large countries) - then you might not have to worry increasing heat levels that much |
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| ▲ | gblargg 40 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Why would electrification prevent track from warping due to heat from the sun? | | |
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| ▲ | kylehotchkiss 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I love a simple solution to billion dollar problems |
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| ▲ | dupontcyborg 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| this isn’t the point of the story, but is that paint truck driving on the railroad tracks? |
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| ▲ | LarsAlereon 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, they're called "high-rail" or "road-rail" vehicles. They have rail wheels that can be lowered down to drive on tracks or raised up for road use. | | |
| ▲ | edoceo 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | And sometimes the axel is short (narrow), so the tires are on the rail. It's funny to see them on a standard road. |
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| ▲ | jeffrallen 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Practical Engineering already explained the correct solution to this problem: https://youtu.be/zqmOSMAtadc?si=UUlmnk9sI-leq0SV But of course, American infrastructure was built on the cheap, and is not maintained correctly. This is why we can't have nice things. |
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| ▲ | anonymars 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Why couldn't this also help with continuous-welded rail? Your own video points out that it's still prone to trade-offs: rail breaks in the cold are better than buckling in the heat, but what if you could reduce the high point with white paint so you could expand the practical temperature range? | |
| ▲ | kylehotchkiss 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | We have like 220,000 miles of railroad. We do have nice things: a working freight railroad system that helps reduce transit costs. | | |
| ▲ | AlotOfReading 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | If the freight rail system were as good as it should be, long distance trucking would be a rounding error instead of the dominant freight mode. | | |
| ▲ | anonymars 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Trucks and trains serve different purposes. My understanding is the US has a higher percentage than most of freight carried by rail. Indeed at the expense of its passenger rail | | |
| ▲ | TylerE 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Airlines killed passenger rail, not freight. Prior to it all being rolled into Amtrak virtually every railroad was losing money on passenger service. |
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| ▲ | dnemmers 11 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Reducing derailment by decreasing track movement by painting the does of the track white, to reflect heat absorbed from the sun. |
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| ▲ | kelseyfrog 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| You can literally buy derailers[1]. People will find away around this, making white paint useless. Engineers need to engineer. 1. https://www.aldonco.com/product-category/derails/ |
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| ▲ | trollbridge 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Derailers are common and are placed where people are working on tracks so a runaway car will go off the tracks instead of hitting the workers. | |
| ▲ | defrost 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Do NOT use where speeds exceed 5 m.p.h.
Not sure what you're thinking of, but these widgets you linked won't solve the problem of long rail sections heating up in the sun, buckling, and derailing freight trains travelling at normal speeds. | |
| ▲ | hhh 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | this is tackling regular natural derailment incidents not terrorism | |
| ▲ | advisedwang 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | OK, but a heatwave isn't going to buy a derailer |
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| ▲ | kazinator 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Union Pacific Is Tackling Rail Heat to Keep America’s Freight on Track Someone talked to an LLM which convinced them they had a brilliant idea. Just a guess ... |
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| ▲ | acyou 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Paint everything white! Why stop at rails? Mostly because it doesn't stay white and looks bad. But it doesn't stop people from painting their siding white, for example. Why paint the sides of the rails? Well you can paint the tops, but it tends to gum up the wheels and get worn off. You want a paint with high reflectivity and high emissivity. Just be sure you aren't using infrared light temp measurement as to measure and make claims about differences in temperature, emissivity is something to watch out for when measuring temperature in that way. 20 degrees is surprising, I sure wish my car was white in the summer. I wonder if you have okay effects with white rails in the winter? |
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| ▲ | phil21 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > Why paint the sides of the rails? Well you can paint the tops, but it tends to gum up the wheels and get worn off. Tops of rails are already pretty shiny for any mainline track seeing a couple dozen trains a day. I'd bet they are more reflective than white paint could be. And the paint would be gone after the first train passes through anyways. They rust pretty quick, but with regular use it doesn't build up much since it's constantly being worn off from the wheel friction. | | |
| ▲ | mjevans 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Thank you, I was wondering why the need for paint rather than side polishing and the added knowledge that this blend of Steel rusts would ruin that for the non-contact surfaces. Painting it cheeper than polishing. But I wanted to know the reason they needed to / that made it so. |
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| ▲ | kazinator 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The top of the rail is already white!!! It's just polished, so that it is reflective. If you sanded it with your 180 grit paper, you would get the scattering which appears white. |
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