This is weird and reactionary. Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models due to security and IP concerns. Anthropic/american models aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

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cromka an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models due to security and IP concerns

This is such a common omission: the Chinese models are open, you can host them yourself on your premises. So privacy and independence.

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spongebobstoes an hour ago | parent [-]

it's well documented that models can be adversarially trained with essentially backdoors in response to special inputs

while I am skeptical that this is happening atm, there are probably many industries where the risk does not seem worthwhile

	▲	anon373839 18 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I suppose this is like when Anthropic was using “prompt modification, steering vectors, or parameter-efficient fine-tuning” to poison the work of people working in the LLM field, including academic researchers.
	▲	Giefo6ah 43 minutes ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		When the model is open weights you can even pass every token (including the chain of thought) though a fourth-party lightweight model like gpt-oss-safeguard to check that it has not become adversarial.
	▲	selectodude an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		I feel like that's a threat that isn't super difficult to block. Unplug it from the internet, require it to go through an API intermediary to access web pages. Maybe I just don't have any imagination.

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oceanplexian an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Lots of organizations are continuing to refuse to use chinese models

Correction: Lots of organizations are refusing to use Anthropic Fable because they have forced opt-in data collection as part of their privacy policy, even for Enterprise.

	▲	ben_w an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Both things, and both reasons, can be true at the same time. Not everyone's going to care about Anthropic requiring data collection (a similar debate plays out with regards to "pay or consent" on website tracking), just as not everyone cares about China with regards to security/IP issues (if they did, a lot more would be banned besides occasionally-Huawei).

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sscaryterry 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nope, but I think this is maybe the critical mass needed to finally crash the AI hype/datacenter cost problem everyones is talking about.

With Oracle being junk before this, more will follow.

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reissbaker an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I would assume the opposite is true — with an open-weight Fable-class model, doesn't demand for GPUs go up? Plenty of companies can now look at what Anthropic is offering — high per token costs for a very intelligent model — and do the math, and at some point it makes sense to just rent the GPU yourself and run Kimi on it if you get similar intelligence without paying Anthropic's margins (albeit with high upfront capital cost).

This would drive down Anthropic's margins, but drive up demand for datacenter and GPU capacity. It's not that people would be using fewer GPUs, they'd just shift demand from high priced token vendors to direct GPU rental, which benefits datacenter companies while hurting Anthropic.

	▲	sscaryterry an hour ago \| parent [-]
		Its a margins game. If its too cheap to run, its not worth the investment.

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stevefan1999 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Oracle is fine, it's just that they can't really expect political decisions that hindered it to accquire TikTok which will be slated to be the biggest customer if the deal went through.

Now they are betting with Project Stargate but it also seems to be crumbling down.

But don't forget that they literally hold the biggest databases, both in commercial and open source, that is, Oracle Database and MySQL. Plus Oracle Java they literally controls at least 30% of the internet's software infrastructure.

And also with a good team of attorneies enforcing the licenses, they can squeeze so much money at the cost of morality.

Also recently they downgraded the always free OCI ARM instance from 4C24G to 2C12G without telling anyone.

	▲	re-thc an hour ago \| parent [-]
		> Oracle is fine They're drowning in debt and risk is increasing. If these US models don't keep holding up their valuation will tank further and some will recall the loans or ask for different terms.

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ai-x 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Models need datacenters to run. It also need other services to do anything useful

	▲	sscaryterry an hour ago \| parent [-]
		The point: Fable isn't worth what Anthropic says it is, so Anthropic isn't as valuable as they make themselves out to be. The DeepSeek incident has already shown it, this is a reminder.

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jml78 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If it ends up being open weights, companies will use it running in US data centers.

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adastra22 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can run open weight models anywhere.

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woadwarrior01 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Cursor will rebrand it as Composer 3.0 to assuage any such concerns, as they did with the previous Kimi models.

	▲	re-thc 5 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		More likely for them to use Kimi 2.7 since Grok is now the flagship product.