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al_borland 5 hours ago

I think saying on one time is better than switching back and forth, but we should really stick to Standard time.

I know people like it to be light out later in the evenings, but they tried this before in the 1970s and it didn't last long[0]. It turns out not only do people not like it to be dark late into the morning, but it also makes it unsafe for kids going to school.

Looking at sunrise and sunset times[1], people will spend a significant portion of the year with dark mornings.

Historically, year-round DST was done to conserve energy during war time and other energy crunches. Standard time seems like the more balanced choice for year-round use... that's probably why it was the standard to begin with. As difficult as these things are to pass, and as disruptive as they are (especially now with software update requirements), getting it right instead of making the same mistakes of the past seems important.

[0] https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-...

[1] https://savestandardtime.com/maps/

xenadu02 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Well studies show that early school start times are bad for kids anyway so schools should fix their schedules. Kids also naturally like to stay up later these days so more daylight would better match that rather than keeping awake with artificial light.

I also dispute that site's claim that everyone starts before 8am. Here on the west coast I'd say most jobs start at 9am unless they are retail. A lot of schools have also switched to later start times.

Not to mention: DST is already in effect for 65% of the year.

Permanent DST has been introduced in congress every year since 2018. A few years ago it passed the Senate but the house didn't take it up. This time the house has passed it but who knows if the Senate will take it up. I'd prefer to be on permanent DST but I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for it to happen.

kayfox 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Here on the west coast I'd say most jobs start at 9am

If you work on things for banks, financial markets or the federal government, you may be starting as early as 5~6am on the west coast.

_--__--__ 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

People who work in finance and certain fields of law on the west coast start their day at 9AM eastern time.

slowin 3 hours ago | parent [-]

And those people are optimizing for money, "prestige" or something other than having a healthy schedule. We definitely should not dictate the entire country's sleep around west coast financiers.

_--__--__ 2 hours ago | parent [-]

But we're cool with this bill pushed by people whose primary concern is more tee times in Florida in January?

I lived most of my life in a place that already has days with post 8AM winter sunrises on Standard time and can only really get up with the sun. Permanent DST forces many people to start their day long before sunrise and somehow I'm supposed to believe that's the 'good for sleep' option.

slowin 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yep, we're cool with it because changing the clocks twice a year is ridiculous. People should live in an environment they're comfortable in. We should also push for a culture of not having to wake up at absolutely insane times in the morning. Like I said in another comment, this is a huge opportunity for many people to WFH and just ditch the commute. Positive changes all around.

garciansmith 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I mostly just want the time change to end, but I definitely prefer DST since the afternoon sun is something everyone can enjoy in the winter. I don't get how dark mornings (when a non-trivial percentage of the population is just asleep anyhow) are worse than a dark afternoon, especially when you'll probably wake up in the dark regardless. Plus sunrise even earlier in the summer is useless.

Kids already go to school in the dark in the winter (at least where I'm from). I can see how in the 70's it was more of an issue to increase the number of dark days because many more kids walked to school than they do now (another poster noted it's 10% of children compared to 50%, not sure if that's correct). And DST would be better for afternoon commutes. Plus DST has been pushed to being used during more and more of the year: the spring switch was in late April in the 70s and early 80s, then early April in the late 80s, now early March (since 2007 I think). 75% of the year is DST, let's just make it 100%.

But hey, the morning people out there are never going to be pleased with year-round DST, just like how people like me will never like standard time. But either is better than what we have right now.

saulpw 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hate to say it, but you're the problem. One time is better than switching, but we switch because no matter which time standard we choose, some group of people takes issue. The only way we can get one time standard is if we all let go of our highest preference and allow the second-best thing to succeed. Otherwise we'll be doomed to third-best (devolving into worst--see Indiana and Arizona and all the other carveouts within carveouts) for eternity.

gboss 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This is why I think we have to switch. Everyone should be equally miserable

al_borland 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I hate to say it, but you're the problem. One time is better than switching

I’m not the problem, we agree. That’s the first thing I said in my post (thought I realize now I had a typo… “saying” = “staying”).

My concern is that if we choose a new standard that was already shown to be problematic when implemented previously, that we’ll end up reverting back in 2 years. Then it will be another 50 years before we try again.

If we go to daylight time and stick with it, I’m still happy. I just worry that people are so focused on that evening sun that they are forgetting where that time comes from and some of the issues that come with it.

saulpw an hour ago | parent [-]

Okay, well said. Maybe we should try one year of each and then put it to a popular vote.

harimau777 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I mean, I'd rather us keep switching than have perma-daylights savings time. At least then things aren't messed up for at least half of the year.

slowin 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Start school and work later, "problem" solved. Also another great argument for WFH, don't waste an hour in commute, spend it in bed getting the rest you need!

vlian2088 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

the solution has always been adjusting the school/business hours as seen fit, not adjusting the time itself.

DST is one of those things our descendants will be baffled by the sheer stupidity of.

dimes an hour ago | parent [-]

Couldn’t you say the same thing about time zones? Why adjust the clock when you can adjust all aspects of society instead?

vlian2088 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

that's a reductio ad absurdum, the opposite of which would be adjusting our clocks by some seconds every day so the sun always would always rise at 6:00:00 AM. both extremes are equally neat in some way and painfully inconvenient in many others.