> Imagining that your studio switched from Unity to Unreal and Unity proceeded to release a hit piece attacking your workplace environment.

Incredible the different takeaways people get from text content on the internet. I'd say it'd be more like if you moved from Unity to Unreal and then Unity made a blog post saying they were happy about you moving to Unreal, publishing they think it'd be a win-win, then outlining why they think so.

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lemming 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

...Unity made a blog post saying they were happy about you moving to Unreal, publishing they think it'd be a win-win, then outlining why they think so

I mean, that makes it all sound very polite and dispassionate, but Andrew's piece was anything but. I have no dog in this fight, I don't use Zig, Rust, Bun or Claude, and initially I thought the bun rewrite sounded like a terrible idea. I changed my mind after reading the piece about the migration - it was very interesting and the process was obviously quite thoughtful. Andrew's piece made me want to take a shower afterwards.

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embedding-shape 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> I have no dog in this fight, I don't use Zig, Rust, Bun or Claude, and initially I thought the bun rewrite sounded like a terrible idea

I'm exactly the same person as you, yet I still think Zig's post wasn't a "hit piece" at all, at least how I understand that term to be. They outlined the history from their point of view, talked about what they didn't like with how Jarred acted and worked, said they were happy about them moving to Rust, then basically said "Good riddance".

Everything is so drama-amplified nowadays, nothing can just be "They're a different person, they work in a way I don't like, but I'm happy they found a better language, good riddance" and that's it, no, instead this is a "hit piece" "trying to assassinate someone's Good Character" and what not... It's so tiring.

	▲	user43928 3 hours ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Here are the highlights of the supposed "they work in a way I don't like" disagreement: > I described him as someone who had strong "beginner energy" > groomed from a young age into uncritically embracing the Silicon Valley mindset > Jarred was a stinky manager. Poor communication, unrealistic expectations, low empathy, no experience. Just a total shit show > We became increasingly horrified at the programming practices we saw in Bun's codebase. Hacks on top of hacks > Jarred was already writing slop well before he had access to LLMs > While I resent Jarred for making Bun into an embarassment for Zig
	▲	self_awareness 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev \| next [-]
		And what is even the point of saying that Andrew dislikes how Jarred acts and works? Let's say the supervisor wants you to write a new microservice. Do you refuse to do it because the supervisor smokes cigarettes and you're an anti-smoker? I think that if you have objections, you should refuse only on technical grounds, not personal.
	▲	JuniperMesos 3 hours ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		[dead]

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cheikhcheikh 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Incredible the different takeaways people get from text content on the internet

It is incredible isn't it.

"Jarred was already writing slop well before he had access to LLMs"

"The grapevine was large and healthy and full of juicy grapes, and all those grapes contained the juice of the same message: Jarred was a stinky manager. Poor communication, unrealistic expectations, low empathy, no experience. Just a total shit show, from an employment perspective."

"at some point they would sell out (let's be honest, their vague "sell some cloud something" business plan was a farce from the get-go"

"he was essentially groomed from a young age into uncritically embracing the Silicon Valley mindset"

There is more but I'll stop quoting to not end up copying the whole thing.

	▲	2 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		[deleted]
	▲	embedding-shape an hour ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		> There is more but I'll stop quoting to not end up copying the whole thing. Yeah, and perhaps also because your point(s) wouldn't make much sense if people ended up reading the whole article, rather than your cherry picks ;)

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raincole 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I talked to those who interviewed for a job at Oven. I talked to people who worked there. Those people talked to each other. Everybody talked to everybody. The grapevine was large and healthy and full of juicy grapes, and all those grapes contained the juice of the same message: Jarred was a stinky manager. Poor communication, unrealistic expectations, low empathy, no experience. Just a total shit show, from an employment perspective

Yeah, exact words you would expect from someone who is happy about a win-win situation.

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jraph 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Andrew is bitter (or something related) about this whole situation, that's no question, he writes it in his updated post (he doesn't say "bitter", but he speaks about unprocessed emotions).

People are entitled to their emotions. The question is whether the bitterness is warranted. I think it is.

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entrope 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Yes, people are entitled to their emotions, but the ways they behave in public and express their emotions reflects on them in a major way. The Bun blog post focused on the technical reasons to change, and was complimentary about Zig. The Zig blog post was heavy on personal attacks, with some technical claims that the Bun blog post had mostly addressed already. Between the two, the Bun post is a lot more compelling from technical and professional perspectives.

I'll admit to thinking that the Rust crowd often has a toxic atmosphere, but Zig came off as worse in this exchange.

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jraph 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> The Bun blog post focused on the technical reasons to change, and was complimentary about Zig

It seems to, on the surface. It would have been dumb to pass the occasion to look good. But really, the core message is that they are better off with rust after the rewrite, but they are better off because they worked on making the rewrite look better. Work that they could have done in Zig too. Of course when you are the creator of Zig, that may feel quite unfair and you should highlight it.

> The Zig blog post was heavy on personal attacks

I agree this doesn't look good.

> Between the two, the Bun post is a lot more compelling from technical and professional perspectives.

The Bun post is a well polished marketing piece from a trillion dollar company that subtly and misleadingly throws shade at Zig (while looking complimentary on the surface, but make no mistake here), a collateral victim of false advertisement for Anthropic's LLM.

Andrew's post is an emotional response (that didn't target "professionally", it's also not on Zig's blog), written too early that could have done without the personal attacks which are bad and completely get in the way of the important message.

Andrew's post looks immature because of the unprocessed emotions, and he really should stop the personal attacks, they don't bring anything good. Anthropic's post is good looking lies as usual.

	▲	joshuamorton 20 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> Of course when you are the creator of Zig, that may feel quite unfair and you should highlight it. Then highlight that, don't repeatedly insult someone. If Andrew thinks the same kind of ai-assisted improvement would be possible in Zig, and that avoiding the kinds of errors migrating to rust achieved would be possible in Zig, he should demonstrate it. And I don't necessarily mean rewriting all of Bun in "better-zig", but like, if you're going to say "this project is bad because it is badly maintained, not because the language has limitations" then demonstrate something to that effect. The only technical detail I recall from Andrew's post is that zig has faster compile times, which may well be true but what do I care?

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embedding-shape 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why not? Sharing your experience with working with people is fine, they're subjective opinions. Does this mean it's slander and/or a hit piece? Seemingly a lot of people would say so, personally I don't think people sharing those sort of experience publicly are doing so out of spite, some of us are just still used to the old-internet where you can share stuff like this in public, without getting piled on for not "thinking/writing the right way" or whatever people are complaining about.