| ▲ | Beijinger 9 hours ago |
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| ▲ | badpun 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's actually pretty hard. The most expected scenario after pumping hundreds of billions into a cleptocracy would be for most of that money to get stolen with little to show for it. Not to build a machine that stopped Russia. What Ukraine authorities managed to do, given the country's state (the coruption is truly mindboggling), is remarkable. |
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| ▲ | Beijinger 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Why all the down votes? |
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| ▲ | tim333 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | They didn't pour $600bn. They've fought valiantly and going on about them being poor and corrupt isn't very nice. | |
| ▲ | Arnt 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | "let's send this stuff from the warehouse to Ukraine" "let's say it's a value of $x even though it's close to the use-by date" and then come you and write that someone sent $x, and expect anyone to believe that. And you even write that $x makes hard things easy. Hope much did the US pay to lose against Iran? Winning against anyone for the same sum isn't easy. | | |
| ▲ | Beijinger 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ukraine is not winning. This is a distorted view in the west, and I am not Russian. Just a few more billions and Russia will collapse. Russia is not fighting Ukraine, Russia is fighting NATO. And we are in dangerous territory. Emmanuell Todd predicted this and this is not a person to be taken lightly (e.g. predicting the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1976 as a 26 years old PhD student):
https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2024/11/how-the-west-was-... We need just a few more sanctions against Russia and we will have a Regime change. The regime change will come, but likely different than we thought - AfD in Germany, Farange in the UK and LePen in France. | | |
| ▲ | Sabinus 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Russia is not entitled to swallow any neighbour that looks at them funny. Neither are we required to stand by and do nothing for the fear of the possibility that Russia will become more belligerent. Russia thought the Ukrainians wouldn't put up much resistance and launched a war of conquest to prevent Ukraine from joining the EU. It's failed in it's gamble and it has to experience the consequences. Russia often reforms only after military defeat exposes how badly the state and army are failing: Crimea pushed the Great Reforms, Japan helped trigger 1905, and Afghanistan plus the Cold War strain fed the Soviet collapse. Loss forces changes that peace lets the system avoid. And maybe we'll get a conciliatory government not an aggressive one doubling down. | |
| ▲ | vardump 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I honestly don't see how Russia is going to win. The West is never going to allow that, because the future consequences would be detrimental. | |
| ▲ | Thraway198 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your link says absolutely nothing about Ukraine losing the war with Russia. | |
| ▲ | Thraway198 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Russia is about to show what it's really made of. If it can't win against Ukraine's scaled-up defence industry, then I gotta say, all these doomsayers and West-Putin equivocators will look pretty dumb. |
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| ▲ | Sabinus 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | What percentage of the aid do you think was stolen? | |
| ▲ | vardump 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Because it's not true? If you think it is, sources please. | | |
| ▲ | Beijinger 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Not hard, if you pump 600 billion [1] into one of the most corrupt [2] and poorest countries [3] Google AI: [1] The European Union and its member states have provided a total of €215.2 billion in overall support to Ukraine and its people since the start of Russia's war of aggression "Since the start of Russia's war of aggression, they have provided €215.2 billion in support for Ukraine and its people.", as reported by the Consilium of the European Union. As of mid-2026, the United States Congress has made available $195 billion in total spending related to the war in Ukraine. [2] Ukraine scored 36 out of 100 points in the latest Transparency International Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI), ranking 104th out of 180 countries. While the country’s rating has improved in recent years, ongoing wartime procurement and defense-sector scandals point to continued high-level corruption risks. Behind most EU candidates: The average score for EU candidate countries is 39. Nations like Montenegro (46), Moldova (42), and Albania (40) are all perceived as cleaner than Ukraine. [3] Ukraine is one of the poorest countries in Europe by both individual and national wealth standards, largely due to historical factors and the massive economic toll of the full-scale war. Global Standing: On the global stage, Ukraine ranks 94th | | |
| ▲ | vardump 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ask Google AI what's the real value of the supplied aid. Also, supplying Ukraine is a cheap way to prevent similar invasions from happening in the future. | | |
| ▲ | Beijinger 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Better question would be: What is the REAL cost? After blowing up the energy supply of Germany.... | | |
| ▲ | vardump 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Sigh. It's still a very cheap price to pay for the European security. |
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| ▲ | 999900000999 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This article was pretty light on the sheer amount of Western aid provided to Ukraine. The whole thing is a cluster. A ton of Ukrainian people *are* ethnically Russian, particularly in the east. They aren’t exactly going to be ok under a NATO backed regime that’s hostile to Russia. Russia shouldn’t tolerate NATO troops stationed on one of its longest land borders. I guarantee if the Chinese worked out a deal to station troops in northern Mexico we wouldn’t be happy. Unfortunately the conflict has also revealed a disgusting double standard in Western media. Ukrainians are “European Christians” with names, hopes and dreams. Not like *those* people who are collateral damage. Burn the village to save it, blah blah. |
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| ▲ | Beijinger 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | "The whole thing is a cluster. A ton of Ukrainian people are ethnically Russian, particularly in the east." Yep. Ukraine is not a Nation state, like Germany, or Finnland, or Sweden. Like Belgium, is is deep divided. The division was reflected in each election. Literally, the east voted for one candidate, the west for the other. I slept in a Hostel during the war in Kyiv. There ware Ukrainians and Russian Ukrainians. We hung out and had drinks, no problem. And during the night Putin and Klitschko made a pissing contest in the sky... | | |
| ▲ | 999900000999 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It appears you’ve been downvoted and flagged. You see, to the Westerner things must be black and white. Russia is evil and the West good, despite the last Iraq war having something like 10x as many innocent casualties as the Ukraine war. Something must be different between Iraqis and Ukrainians to make the latter so much more worthy of concern. Guess we’ll never know. | | |
| ▲ | Sabinus 24 minutes ago | parent [-] | | I don't think that's a fair assessment of Western perspectives. If the USA was 6 years into a very messy conquest of Mexico because Mexico wanted to join a trade bloc with China, the West would be very disapproving of American actions. Similarly the Iraq war is unpopular to Western citizens. Even at the time the British weren't very into it, and the Germans and French outright refused to participate. |
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| ▲ | vardump 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | True before the war. Putin did manage to make Ukraine united. The clear majority of Russian speaking Ukrainians support Zelenskyy now. |
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| ▲ | thisislife2 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Yes, it is a proxy war between NATO and Russia. But have they really pumped 600 billion dollars? I thought it was around 100 to 150 billions, so far, which isn't that much for the west. |
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| ▲ | Beijinger 8 hours ago | parent [-] | | Nope The European Union and its member states have provided a total of €215.2 billion in overall support to Ukraine and its people since the start of Russia's war of aggression "Since the start of Russia's war of aggression, they have provided €215.2 billion in support for Ukraine and its people.", as reported by the Consilium of the European Union. As of mid-2026, the United States Congress has made available $195 billion in total spending related to the war in Ukraine. | | |
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