| ▲ | ryzvonusef 2 hours ago |
| The purpose of a college degree is NOT a job... but the purpose of a college LOAN is 100% a job, and it's very important to differentiate between the two. The whole point of the loan is to buy time; you don't want to wait for when you have savings to purchase the degree, you want to do it now. If you are not doing it for the job, then why the loan, what's the rush? If knowledge and prestige is all that matters, then don't take the loan, take the scenic route, get your degree slowly as and when you have the time and money, and one day you will have something to look back at. But if you are doing it so you can start earning as soon as possible, when you are still young and energetic... then you are doing it for the job, and in that case the degree better be financially worth it. You have the right to a degree in XYZ... you should NOT have the right to a taxpayer backed grant/aid/loan/whatever to gain said degree unless you're on a reasonable path to become a tax payer yourself as soon as you are done with the degree. |
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| ▲ | RandomLensman 36 minutes ago | parent | next [-] |
| If it is quite profitable to get a certain education, why would it need the tax payer to provide the loan for it? Shouldn't that be easy to fund from the private sector? |
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| ▲ | threetonesun 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Assuming you’re not talking about a loan to do this (at which point you’ve reinvented indentured servitude), back when there was a smaller pool of college graduates it was easier to find a company that would pay for your education, some even offering bonuses if you completed it. | | |
| ▲ | RandomLensman 11 minutes ago | parent [-] | | Not sure I understand: why would a loan be indentured servitude if it funds an education (not binding employment etc.)? |
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| ▲ | delusional 11 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > If knowledge and prestige is all that matters, then don't take the loan, take the scenic route, get your degree slowly as and when you have the time and money, and one day you will have something to look back at. Do you see no value in young energetic people being educated while their brains are still maximally plastic, and society get maximal value out of the education? Is there no value in handing over our knowledge to the new generation BEFORE they act without it? Is there no value in knowing something the "free labor market" has not priced in? Rights are something we grant each other. If we see a value in an educated public, we can grant each other the right to get an education. There are no "rights" in nature, so the statement "you don't have the right" is meaningless in matters of politics, where the whole point of the discussion is to figure out if you should "have the right". Your inner world must be a dead hellscape if you believe that the only things that exist are "prestige", arbitrary "knowledge", or a job. |
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| ▲ | sscaryterry 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > purpose of a college LOAN is 100% a job Wow, what horseshit. |
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| ▲ | jclulow 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I mean, says you? We live in a society and to some extent we decide what that means. I believe many countries outside the US have heavily subsidised loans or cost deferment mechanisms, or just outright government funding for school. Certainly in Australia you essentially don't have to pay back your HECS debt if you don't end up with a salary of sufficient magnitude, and then the rate at which you pay it back is scaled to what you earn. |
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| ▲ | reactordev an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | In the US, college is considered a privilege for those who can afford it or are poor enough to be granted it from poorly designed taxpayer funds. Then we set the bar for hiring to requiring a degree making it so that if you want anything above minimum wage, you’re going to have to get a degree. This is how the predatory lending prior to 2008 started with student loan debt. Glad to see that 20 years hasn’t taught us anything. Other countries where University and Education are rights or are provided via better taxpayer systems don’t understand the pure chaos the US system is. | | |
| ▲ | codedokode 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | There is always a catch. We (Russia) have so called "free higher education" but it doesn't mean anyone can get a degree for free. There is a limited number of budget-funded places, and only students with better scores are accepted. For top universities like ITMO, you need to have 100/100 points on 3 subjects + 10 extra points for scientific activity to get "free" education. Otherwise, pay money. Furthermore, within that government-funded quota almost half of places are reserved for olympiad winners and participants of a military operation, so the number of available places is even lower. Of course, if you do not want to study computer science in a top university, the bar is much lower and you do not need to have the top scores. But then you will be working some job nobody wants for a low salary. Furthermore, the government now puts a limit to number of paid places in cities like Moscow and Saint-Petersburg because they do not like that young people move to large cities to get an IT profession instead of studying in the college in their small city to work in the factory for a low salary. I wonder what is the reality of "free education" in other countries. Can you get an IT, AI-related degree in a top university for free. | | |
| ▲ | jltsiren 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | In Finland, the government and the universities negotiate on how funding will be allocated between the fields. STEM fields are generally easy to get in, while places in arts, humanities, and social sciences are more limited. When I was a student, cultural anthropology had the reputation as the hardest field to get in, with the acceptance rate usually around 2%. |
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| ▲ | anonym29 42 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Then we set the bar for hiring to requiring a degree making it so that if you want anything above minimum wage, you’re going to have to get a degree. While this may have been true in the past, this is no longer the case, and it has not been the case for at least a decade and change now, at least in the US. If you are intelligent and self-motivated to learn in-demand skills, and you can demonstrate those skills, and adapt well to a corporate environment, there is a path for you even without a degree. Yes, not every door is open to you, but that doesn't mean all the good doors are closed. I've been on hiring committees where I interviewed Ivy League CS grads for SWE positions who couldn't do leetcode easies, tasks like defanging an IP address, in a language of their choice, with clear instructions, active guidance from me, and permission to search the web for syntax (but not solutions), and an entire hour to solve it. As a means of delivering credible social proof of competency, legacy admissions and grade inflation have all but ruined college degrees. We live in era where essentially all recorded human knowledge is available for free, instantaneously, 24/7, from a device that fits in your pocket and works from just about anywhere, and this has been the case for my entire career. As of more recently, $20/mo gets you a personal 1:1 tutor that knows more than every college professor you've ever seen combined, is available to you 24/7, never judges you for stupid questions, never gets tired of re-explaining concepts to you that you're struggling with, will write a study plan / syllabus perfectly tailored to your existing knowledge and schedule, complete with links to reading material, generate interactive quizzes and tests for you, etc. College as a means of delivering information is about 30 years out of date at this point, and college as a means of delivering a tailored education is now about 4 years out of date. In the words of Peter Gregory, college has become a cruel joke on the poor and middle class. | | |
| ▲ | ChrisMarshallNY 8 minutes ago | parent [-] | | > working fully remote for Google, also with no degree. Aquihired? My understanding, is that Google is infamous for requiring, not just degrees, but degrees at prestigious STEM colleges. Apple is known for hiring folks with patchy educational creds. They showed interest in me, a couple of times, and I’m as scruffy as you can get. |
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| ▲ | efitz an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Great for Australia! You do you. We’ll do our thing. We like you, but we don’t want to be you. Our Constitution doesn’t guarantee free university degrees in “underwater basketweaving” or “following your dreams” for everyone. But we also have a way to do it. Any US state that wants to guarantee loans for, or even subsidize, such degrees, is welcome to do so, with state money, not federal money. |
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| ▲ | Vaslo an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Very sensible take. If you want to study Latin American gender roles and it’s your own money, and a college can break even on its cost to teach you that, you should be able to. When it’s someone else’s money, the outcome changes. |
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| ▲ | throw94949499 an hour ago | parent [-] | | But in order to get an engineering or math degree, university will FORCE you to study woke garbage like gender roles. And pay for it... Just avoid universities completely, we seen during covid how useless they are! | | |
| ▲ | cheschire an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | "we seen during" This was an intentionally ironic use of poor grammar in a statement against organized education, right? Hopefully? | | |
| ▲ | throw94949499 22 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | I am foreigner. It is normal spoken english in UK where I lived. Sorry for not using "proper cambridge english" here. | |
| ▲ | AnthonyMouse 39 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's grammatically correct AAVE. It's a thing they teach about in university. |
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| ▲ | kentm 40 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | They do not. This is nonsense. | | |
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