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Robdel12 8 hours ago

OpenAI is about to get ROCKED on this. From this report, this looks open and shut. Apple has basically infinite money and incredible lawyers. Not sure what OpenAI can counter with unless they have clear, hard evidence this hasn’t been happening.

overfeed 8 hours ago | parent | next [-]

OpenAI also has infinite money, and the graph for money/lawyering gets clamped well below what OpenAI can afford. It's going to end most other corporate courtroom tangles: with an undisclosed settlement and a well-publicized partnership.

transdev12 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

OpenAI really doesn’t have infinite money. They have a lot of money, sure, but it is being burned like crazy, we know this. It is widely known that they are deeply unprofitable.

Compare that with Apple, a company that throws off billions of cash every quarter. This isn’t a legit comparison.

anon373839 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I agree that both companies have sufficient capital that legal resources are a a wash. But:

> It's going to end most other corporate courtroom tangles: with an undisclosed settlement and a well-publicized partnership.

This we don't know. We don't know what Apple wants to accomplish with this suit. They may be more interested in the injunctive relief than the monetary recovery. They may want to weaken OpenAI as part of a strategic pivot toward marketing local, private AI inference. As everyone has noted, the factual allegations are detailed and extensive - Apple likely has OpenAI dead to rights on this.

yugioh3 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Exactly. what financial benefit can Apple get from a nonexistent OAI hardware business with no launched products? What actual harm has been caused so far? This is all about preempting future harm by slowing their product launch by years or, like Waymo/Uber, forcing OAI’s hand to cut losses and sunset their hardware ambitions permanently.

crossroadsguy 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Infinite money if lawyers are accepting AWS and Azure credits. You got to store those discovery documents somewhere after all.

rukuu001 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> OpenAI also has infinite money

And an infinite money-eating bonfire

bigyabai 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Unless Apple protracts the case, that won't become an issue.

runako 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

Drag out a legal battle? Surely, Apple would never do something like that[1].

1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Micros....

amazingman 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OpenAI's money belongs to investors and can be pulled if, say, investors got spooked. Apple's money is much more real.

enraged_camel 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>> OpenAI also has infinite money

Except OpenAI needs every cent of that money for compute, and they don't have healthy profits that can replenish what they spend.

Their financial situation is simply not comparable to that of Apple's.

tybit 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The OPs point wasn’t that OpenAis financial situation is comparable to Apples. It was that the likely cost of litigation is a drop in the ocean for OpenAi too despite their comparative lack of cash to burn. Legal disputes like this cost in the hundreds of millions over many years, so well below 1% OpenAis last single funding round in single year. If they got a tiny benefit from this (very gross) behaviour it may be finically well worth while. OpenAI may very well go under IMO, but this will barely be a straw on the camels back.

y1n0 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

OpenAI has no shortage of vc money sources.

jhfdbkofdchk 6 hours ago | parent [-]

For now.

4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
[deleted]
xtracto 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is when I wish Jobs was still in charge of Apple. I never quite liked him, but I like Altman way less. And Jobs would CRUCIFY the whole openAI team for this. It would be beautiful to watch.

crossroadsguy 3 hours ago | parent [-]

That's a very twisted kind of relative deification.

sfifs 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well OpenAI is offering equity to the US Government (and who knows who else privately) Tim Apple famously refused to bring manufacturing back to the US when the current president asked and play hardball on infosec. While this is a civil case, increasingly judiciary seems to be an extension of the executive. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out.

ecommerceguy 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Does this ring true in California?

xp84 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

For real. If Apple can prove half of this complaint, OpenAI need to be jumping straight to "how can we settle this immediately." Can you imagine how much fun Apple lawyers would have taking this to a jury trial? Especially considering overall Apple knows that the public overall vaguely likes Apple and distrusts "AI" companies for, hmmm... (alleged) IP theft.

I'm also wondering about all these involved ex-Apple people who decided to pivot to crime, it seems like OpenAI has to fire all of them, no? Because how do you just keep them, knowing that they're all basically tainted, and that Apple will be coming back to sue you again for anything that seems "inspired" by Apple products or tech.

What a massive cock-up for whoever (Tan?) is at the top of this conspiracy, to think this was worth the risk, and to have not known that the chances of getting caught going this far outside the legal boundaries were less than 100%.

downrightmike an hour ago | parent [-]

Also OpenAI is the one that bought all the ram chips for the years to come, so no one likes them

spacedcowboy an hour ago | parent [-]

Apple’s proposed remedy: give Us all the ram.

blueblisters 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

OpenAI will just put the employees involved under the bus. They can claim the information acquired wasn't used for OpenAI's benefit or authorization especially since the device isn't actually out yet.

moomoo11 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apple should buy OpenAI

sneak 16 minutes ago | parent [-]

With what money? I don't think you have looked at OAI's valuation lately.

an0malous 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What kind of repercussions will OpenAI face?

calebkaiser 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Based on a cursory read of the situation, it seems similar (at least on its face) to the Waymo vs Uber situation. In that case, Uber payed a Waymo an equity stake and signed an agreement about which technology they would/wouldn't use. The key person involved also was sentenced to 18 months in prison (pardoned after 6 months).

paxys 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In the extreme case it may result in OpenAI having to abandon their in-progress consumer hardware products, but honestly that might actually be good for them. I really can't see all that investment being worthwhile. Better for them to stick to their core competency.

More realistically - OpenAI will cooperate, the specific employees involved will be punished, there will be a settlement, and this whole matter will be forgotten.

y1n0 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Basically nothing. I mean they’ll have to pay up but money clearly isn’t something OpenAI worries about. They’ll just raise more from the infinite vc money tree.

anon373839 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Apple may get a chance to rifle through OpenAI's trade secrets. And they may win an outcome where there is direct court supervision over what OpenAI is allowed to build and how.

m463 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I hope they can pull it off.

That said, silicon valley is full of stories where people brazenly stole from company A to start company B and pretty much got away with it.

EDIT: this is the one I remember:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_Design_Systems%2C_Inc....

busymom0 4 hours ago | parent [-]

The silicon valley TV show even had episodes on this! Man I miss that show. They'd have so much funny material nowadays if they came back.

mannanj 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Is there any other AI company with as much controversy as this company?

- ~murdered~ (dead) employee who's mother is on a anti-sam hate campaign - ceo fired then coup's his way back into the company - conflict of interest with Microsoft

Despite Anthropic's bad press, they haven't been as dishonest as this company.

frankdenbow 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

proactively creating the script for the movie

dataviz1000 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> ceo fired then coup's his way back into the company

Are we discussing Steve Jobs in 1985?

Any time there is that much money and power involved there is going to be intense drama.

bumblehean 6 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Are we discussing Steve Jobs in 1985?

Steve Jobs left because he lost a corporate power struggle. Sam Altman was fired because the board thought he was too fundamentally untrustworthy to remain as CEO (if we're to believe their statement ofc).

Different kinds of "controversy" IMO

etchalon 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Steve also actually, you know, left. And stayed away for over a decade.

mannanj 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is not drama though, it's more inline with unethical, immoral, and bad. It's indicative of company with bad character.