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petcat 2 hours ago

I think this whole heat wave crisis has been shocking to the rest of the world to see that apparently Europeans refuse to install AC even in new-build homes and it is causing enormous numbers of deaths. What is the reason for this? Is it just because it's expensive and energy costs are so high?

It seems like a basic safety requirement that they are refusing to acknowledge and are now apparently just refusing to go to work completely when it gets hot outside.

Al-Khwarizmi 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The south already mostly had AC. The north was too busy criticizing the south for things like closing shops in the afternoon, using blinds, eating late, and of course using AC. Now I guess they're beginning to realize that maybe it's not that the south is "lazy" but just adaptation.

Toning down the snark, to be honest, most places in countries like France and Germany didn't have AC because up to a few years ago, maybe they'd seriously need it one week per year or so... it didn't make sense for them to have it just to keep it turned off 99% of the time. I'm sure they will adapt, but it always takes some time to change the old ways.

4gotunameagain 2 hours ago | parent [-]

When the temperature in Berlin is higher than 30degC, it becomes the south. People start to shout, honk, argue in the streets, stay up late.

We are affected by the weather much more than we'd like to admit.

an hour ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
rwmj 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Which bit of Europe are you talking about? Italy and Spain have AC everywhere.

Further north it hasn't been necessary until very recently, and now people are fighting in shops to buy portable units and there are going to be loads of permanent installations once things settle down later this year.

swiftcoder 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Italy and Spain have AC everywhere

Southern Spain may, but it's virtually unheard of up here in Galicia/Asturias/Cantabria. Even many businesses in these parts don't have AC, and our Ourense region has pretty regularly had 40+ C days the last ~5 summers

mjorgers an hour ago | parent [-]

In the Canary Islands, where it’s not just hot, but also humid, you’ll be pressed to find a restaurant with AC. Some businesses do, but frankly it’s quite rare, and often times I’ve entered a business and felt a slap of heat in the face. Quite different from Madrid

zarzavat 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's nothing new. In 2003 there was a huge heatwave and thousands of people died:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_European_heatwave

The reason is simple to understand. For the majority of the time the AC would sit idle. Some years AC is not required at all because the summer is mild. It's hard to get people to spend money on things that they don't need most of the time, it's like buying insurance.

alex7o 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Ok but you can use AC in the winter as well, you've an use it only to dry the air in your apartment. So this is not a real argument to me once you know what it can do and how it does it, there is no reason not to have one. Outside it is 25°C but I still run my AC at 22°C and it is super efficient as this is the case where AC excels at efficiency when the diff is small. It is a heat pump, sometimes I would run it when outside is colder and inside is veru warm as it moves heat faster than opening the window and waiting.

I know not AC are/were heat pumps but I don't know of any that are not anymore

loloquwowndueo 2 hours ago | parent [-]

You can still buy a cooling-only unit no problem. Slightly cheaper than a heat pump.

alex7o an hour ago | parent [-]

Yes but still, I don't think it is worth it when you can heqt with it more efficiently than burning gas or coal.

cassianoleal an hour ago | parent [-]

At least in the UK, there's a massive move to heat pumps. The problem is that it's only for heating, through the usual central heating systems - so it just replaces the boiler. It's almost unheard of to have one for air conditioning. Usually people with air-con get a portable one that's only for cooling.

mysterydip 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

or (to put it in an IT context) backup and DR services/hardware.

iso1631 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There were 2-3 days a year above 30C in London from 1995 to 2015. Since then it's been about 6 days a year, and this year has already broken that

bryanlarsen 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Even in new build homes? IIUC, many people in Europe were taking advantage of the incentives to install heat pumps as a back door mechanism to install A/C. After all a heat pump is essentially just A/C with a reverser switch.

But that only works in homes with forced air heating. Most of Europe doesn't use forced air heating. You can replace a boiler with a heat pump, but if you do you don't magically get A/C too.

In 2026 it seems silly to do new builds in a cold climate with anything but a forced air heat pump.

vrganj 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It also works in homes with wall heating. My parents now have wall cooling, which is much nicer than any forced air AC.

weberer 2 hours ago | parent [-]

>wall cooling

That sounds like a big mold risk if its causing condensation in the walls. Wall heating, on the other hand sounds like a great idea.

ben_w 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

We have underfloor heating/cooling; the only mould we see anywhere now is a small amount on the skylight, and previously some in the bathroom that was due to a leaking roof the builders have since made good.

Condensation needs humidity, not just a lower temperature. In summer, this is rare, even though we're in Berlin which is essentially built in the middle of a huge area of low-lying marshy woodlands.

vrganj 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Their walls are autoclaved aerated concrete, which is pretty good at both insulating (so less cooling needed) and absorbing/diffusing humidity, so I think in their case it's fine.

It's a pretty cool material!

jltsiren 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Things are already much better than they used to be. The 2003 heatwave killed ~70k. This year's heatwave was worse, but the number of deaths probably didn't go much beyond 20k.

4gotunameagain 2 hours ago | parent [-]

We also recently had COVID to cull the herd. I imagine many people are missing from the stats because of it.

Tade0 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think this was overhyped in the media.

I live at 51°N and apartments in my building that face the south largely have AC. I've seen a lot of AC company vans in my neighborhood lately, so I guess many people pulled that trigger this year.

Personally I went to the mountains as it's a 2h drive and naturally cool, moist air beats AC every time.

The people who refuse to install it and make up the majority of deaths are simply old - older than the average life expectancy in the US - and thus typically pinching pennies - especially that for the vast majority of their lives it wasn't necessary.

My father had AC installed a several years ago due to his health and it was probably working overtime this season.

My mother lives in a commie block that is well insulated and surrounded by green spaces, so the heatwave didn't affect her nearly as much.

My college friend discovered his heat pump is actually reversible, so now instead of heated, they have cooled floors. Unfortunately the device wasn't smart enough to on one hand use the heat to heat up tap water and the cold to cool the surroundings, but I guess you can't have everything.

jonwinstanley an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If you only need it for 4 days a year, it’s still a big expense that needs some thought

r_lee 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

because "in ze yurop we don't need ze AC!" and here we are now....

vrganj 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's mostly about the perception that AC is a band-aid that doesn't just stall fixing the root cause of climate change caused by excessive energy consumption, but actively makes it worse.

swiftcoder an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I think this view is changing as solar adoption takes off in southern Europe. Here in Spain we're in the position that market rates for electricity are often negative while the sun is shining (although these rates are not really passed onto consumers at present).

That makes additional cooling load almost a non-issue, and can help incentivise the transition from diesel boilers -> heat pumps, as well as driving the grid upgrades we sorely need to make use of all the solar capacity.

an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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globular-toast 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why is this "a perception"? It's true isn't it? I'm going to get AC but the situation is quite worrying.

Muromec an hour ago | parent | next [-]

It isn't necessarily true. Here (bottom of the sea) it's only hot when the there isn't any clouds, so solar energy that produces the heat is also producing the electricity to run the AC.

It's also a misdirection of guilt. It's not the accumulated CO2 from the decades of burning all kinds of shit that is driving the weather, it's your personal AC unit.

estearum 39 minutes ago | parent [-]

You're describing a very new and not-yet-realized state of affairs where large amounts of power comes from solar. In that world, then yeah obviously the initial concern isn't valid.

vrganj an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Indeed. It is true. However, it's not exactly helping if the other side of the pond burns gas turbines to power their AI dreams and tells us to "just get AC bro".

AC does make the problem worse, the issue is just that climate change is mostly out of Europe's control.

globular-toast 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How would installing AC help if your job is outside? It would actually make it worse!

exe34 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We'll just sweat it out and complain. It's more fun!

colechristensen 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Collective cultural delusion? Koreans think leaving a fan on while you're sleeping is deadly... people are weird.