| ▲ | IsTom 10 hours ago |
| If demand doesn't fall down or current manufacturers supply go up, somebody (presumably in China) will spin up fabs. Apple wanted to use blacklisted Chinese RAM already. |
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| ▲ | swader999 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| It's the euv machines that are the bottleneck. Pretty hard to ramp those up any faster in the next few years. |
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| ▲ | smallmancontrov 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | DDR5 is still mostly made with DUV (remember Intel 14+++++++++?), and even though manufacturers have slowly been moving a few layers to EUV the advantage is at the margin. Lack of EUV at scale will not prevent China from ramping useful RAM into this market. |
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| ▲ | inferniac 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| spinning up fabs takes ages, micron has a US fab started bulding in 2023, its still not operational (projected to start mid-2027) |
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| ▲ | coldtea 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | That proves that spinning up US fabs takes ages. Chinese fabs might not be so tied with red tape and regulation upon regulation (which is a funny reversal, in terms of "communism vs capitalism" bureucracy/inefficiency cold war thinking) | | |
| ▲ | buckle8017 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The Chinese don't have access to new EUV machines. All of their fabrication ability is based on old processes. | | | |
| ▲ | ralusek 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | 1.) China is not communist, even remotely so. China is fascist in every sense of the word. 2.) Authoritarianism can move faster than anything. They can just say "wipe out that village, build the coal plant there, data center here, fab here. 3.) If it's red tape and regulation holding the US back, then that's clearly not "capitalism." | | |
| ▲ | narrator an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the most ironic fact of the 21st century is that there are less than 20,000 naturalized citizens in China. Western leftists don't really have a good explanation for that one and it definitely leans into the fascist characterization. | |
| ▲ | coldtea an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | >1.) China is not communist, even remotely so. China is fascist in every sense of the word. Except in the actual historical sense. They appear to enjoy all sorts of freedoms, increased prosperity, even have elections at different levels but under a single party system. Which is not necessarily that different than a effectively two party system. >2.) Authoritarianism can move faster than anything. They can just say "wipe out that village, build the coal plant there, data center here, fab here. Now that China is more effective, "it's easy because they're authoritarian". Before the argument was "authoritarianism can never be as effective as free-market democracy". >3.) If it's red tape and regulation holding the US back, then that's clearly not "capitalism." It's real world capitalism, not some fantasy some guy imagined removing all warts. |
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| ▲ | not-a-llm 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| where is this cheap Chinese RAM? I'd like to buy some |
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| ▲ | officeplant 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Ebay and Amazon are flooded with it. Especially if you are looking for anything prior to DDR5. DDR2 and DDR3 are especially flooded with weird brands you've never heard of before. Unfortunately its not so cheap anymore as everyone ramped prices up of course. Last year I could still get 32GB of DDR4 for under $60 from chinese brands. | | |
| ▲ | not-a-llm 41 minutes ago | parent [-] | | DDR3 is from 10 years ago. DDR2 is from 15. | | |
| ▲ | officeplant 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | And? I just upgraded my 2008 Thinkpad R61i to 8GB of DDR2 a few months ago while I was also upgrading to a core2duo. DDR2 and DDR3 are still in active use by SBC manufacturers. |
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| ▲ | byzantinegene 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I am hopeful but I am not confident China has the capability to do it. |
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| ▲ | coldtea 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | As if it requires some unique genes or brains? If a place can do it, another place, with a huge track record on manufacturing and lately expanding all kinds of tech, can. | | |
| ▲ | pfannkuchen 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | It might help to not have much in the way of environmental, safety or labor regulations. Whether or not you feel like those are good overall (I do), they do actually also slow things down. | | |
| ▲ | coldtea 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >It might help to not have much in the way of environmental, safety or labor regulations. Yes, like how it helped western industry early on. Or, well into the 70s for the most part. |
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| ▲ | anonym29 8 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | They're already doing it https://www.techspot.com/news/112502-memory-prices-tipped-fa... |
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