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AI-generated videos to maximally drive a target brain region(nevo-project.epfl.ch)
59 points by smusamashah 3 hours ago | 54 comments
Unearned5161 44 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

This is very similar to last week with that mind reading startup thing. Please read the paper before commenting.

This is a tool to help researchers in figuring out what different parts of the brain are actually for with less experimenter bias contamination of “well we think maybe it’s about this so let’s show it video of x to see”.

The essence runs on having someone sit in a scanner for a couple hours watching all sorts of things, and then feeding that to a model that will then build its own representation of said data and try different things on it until it’s found what makes a certain part sing in the model.

The purpose is a generalized understanding of brain function, more or less the same way we’ve been doing it all these years. Expose brain to something, record it somehow, see if brains reaction in the recording helps you understand more about who we are and what cognition is.

da_grift_shift 32 minutes ago | parent [-]

>Expose brain to something, record it somehow, see if brains reaction in the recording helps you understand more about who we are and what cognition is.

It also helps companies like Moonbug Entertainment (Candle Media) understand how to build better Distractatrons.

    It’s a small TV screen, placed a few feet from the larger one, that plays a continuous loop of banal, real-world scenes — a guy pouring a cup of coffee, someone getting a haircut — each lasting about 20 seconds. Whenever a youngster looks away from the Moonbug show to glimpse the Distractatron, a note is jotted down.

    “It’s not mega-interesting, what’s on the Distractatron,” said Maurice Wheeler, who runs the research group. “But if they aren’t fully focused, they might go, ‘Oh, what’s that?’ and kind of drift over. We can see what they’re looking at and the exact moment when they got distracted.”
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/05/arts/television/cocomelon...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2024/06/17/cocomelon-chil...

What a world.

aswegs8 14 minutes ago | parent [-]

I know a technology like that was used ~20 years ago for ADHD. EEG feedback, as soon as the kid looks away or zones out, the movie stops playing.

ben_w 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As others on Telegram have said: automated search for visual superstimuli likely leads to bad outcomes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supernormal_stimulus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BLIT_(short_story)

Also: one of the V3A animations reminds me loosely of things I saw when I was a kid, at night, shortly before I slept (though my experience then was more circular).

aswegs8 14 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Breaking news: TikTok is bad for you

baxtr an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

On telegram?

sudo_cowsay 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Isn't there that one Harry Potter warning. I think it was the potion guy who said too much luck is dangerous. I guess that is somewhat of a parallel to this. Too much positive visual stimuli is dangerous or bad.

Tenemo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Others on Telegram? Some sort of a HN channel?

TMWNN 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Or as SCP calls them, cognitohazards.

Also relevant: <https://www.quantamagazine.org/a-math-theory-for-why-people-...>

My understanding is that those who work with the mentally handicapped use bright lights and other stimuli to soothe and control them. It is also my understanding that the autistic are stimulated by vibrant colors (coughcoughMy Little Ponycoughcough).

Who is to say that the rest of us are not also vulnerable to such controlling stimuli?

ben_w 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Bright lights in particular, I'm thinking: yes, normal people do find sunbathing relaxing.

nullbio an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is already happening at scale by the social media feed algorithms. We don't need generated content to accomplish this. In a sea of user created content, plenty of it is already at peak activation.

momocowcow an hour ago | parent [-]

The plan is to get content producers out of the loop to reduce revenue share and boost profits.

voidmain 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We are really getting to the point where the tech industry must be stopped if humanity is to continue at all, let alone thrive.

tefkah an hour ago | parent | next [-]

This does indeed seem comically evil. While surely this may provide somewhat interesting insights in how our brain processes things, this seems squarely past the "should" part of "you scientists were so obsessed with whether you could you failed to consider whether you should"

p-e-w an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> This does indeed seem comically evil.

And I have yet to see a single paper like this where a researcher bails out and publicly says they refuse to work on such projects. Not one.

The most benign interpretation of this observation is that science is filled with spineless opportunists who don’t care who they hurt with what they create. A slightly less benign interpretation might be that many of these people are doing this deliberately, and getting off on the sense of power it gives them.

rightbyte 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

When skip level bosses on my last job wanted to do boneheaded things in automotive design they usually had to keep asking different engineers until they got a yay.

When it is pushed from the top it is hard to stop at ground level.

Cakez0r an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In their defence, don't shoot the messenger. Just because they published it doesn't mean that others haven't already discovered it. Better to know its possible than be completely ignorant.

Arodex 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

Then maybe publish the results, but don't publish the "how to".

pishpash an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Would it be better if this was done on monkeys? Because people did that before this in silico digital brain stuff.

pishpash an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

These aren't scientists. They are techbros. That's why it comes out like this.

renyicircle an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd say we're already well past that point. Short-form "content" already exists and is messing with people's brains, this is the same thing just taken a few steps further. By the time the tech companies start using it, it will already be too late and we'll be left discussing whether the next man-made nightmare they come up with is the point where the tech industry must be stopped.

dr_kiszonka an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I get that people see this and think: ads and social media. My first thought was cognitive neurorehabilitation and brain stimulation.

Realistically, probably ads, but maybe not only that?

(AI start-up idea: one of our ads a day keeps dementia away! /s)

fnoef an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

You can't say things like this on this website. On here, every new tech thing is a "progress" /s

jeffrallen an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Progress, but towards what?

zx8080 an hour ago | parent [-]

Ads efficacy, of course.

StefanBatory an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Think of the shareholders and Capital. Money matters more than human, commie. /s

throwaw12 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Apart from ethically bad and evil use cases of this application, can we use it to massage the parts of brain like we do it to our bones and muscles with the help of physiotherapists?

reason I am asking it could be some relief to our brains after tedious working day, especially after heavy AI usage

bootsmann an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Its also an interesting way to discover what that part of the brain is for, right.

awestroke 22 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

what the brain needs is Default Mode Network, not more stimuli

Gecko4072 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Very interesting. We have an organic experiment converging to maximum stimulation in short form videos (which will become the majority of training data for future video gen models) Already approaching the capabilities of a “mood organ” from blade runner. Except usually most people don’t even make the choice to change their mood anymore. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Do_Androids_Dream_of_Electric_...

pona-a 37 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The title reads a lot like the lab logs you'd find in a horror game.

But for the paper itself, it seems they're using genetic optimization over predefined keywords. Wonder what would happen if they did gradient descent on the latent space directly. Is brain stimulation just not a good domain for GD?

drivebyhooting 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reminds me of the parrot https://www.sfsfss.com/stories2/BLIT.htm

aacid an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What are these videos supposed to do? I watched few of them and it does nothing for me?

if it is targetting visual regions of brain and I have aphantasia (I cannot visualize anything in my mind) is that connected?

Orochikaku an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder if the end-game of this field of research will be to run these simulations at scale using neuron-on-a-chip services such as [0] Cortical Cloud.

I don't think it's a matter of if but when. Grim.

[0] https://corticallabs.com/cloud

amanharshx an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

WOW! Cant wait to tell to future generations that we had voluntarily made these algorithms to manipulate and influence our own brains

calebgcc an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wonder what Meta could do with a similar technology…

But here we can start also the usual discussion about technology research for the sake of it vs calibration of possible side effects of new research

Personally i think we haven’t solve this problem and thus it’s just a matter of time until we’ll get in a non-going-back point

StefanBatory an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How can one work on that and not consider that they're pure evil?

t0lo an hour ago | parent [-]

Think of the shareholders (it's time to start using physical force to stop people)

numpad0 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wait, this is with a digital twin only? Not fMRI or webcam based?

55555 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

What in the zuck is this?

karel-3d 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can't wait until I see AI-generated gambling ads that are specifically created to stimulate my brain the most

whearyou 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Straight out of Echopraxia.

Will be interesting to see how strong the controlling forces can be - enough to make you miss things in direct perception like in the book, or only softer effects further up the cognition layer stack

fragmede 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's fascinating. I wish the demo videos were longer.

weikju an hour ago | parent [-]

Am I the only one who is avoiding even clicking the link just in case?

rightbyte a minute ago | parent | next [-]

It is like screen saver moving patterns or corridors with a strange field of view zooming effect.

Nothing special compared to purpose made screen savers.

cyclopeanutopia an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

No, you are not alone.

FeepingCreature an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

"Prime Intellect, I would like you to begin stimulating the neurons of the pleasure center of my brain, one at a time, and remember the ones I report to you as being favorable."

stainablesteel an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

these videos were disappointing and underwhelming

whywhywhywhy an hour ago | parent [-]

If you read the techbique it reads like something far less remarkable being PR’d to sound like a big deal.

The fact it’s bucketing by making images of lighting and facial expressions, the fact it doesn’t natively do the video it does an image then video generates from it.

The results look really bad and samey. Doubt this would work for the actual thing they’re pitching it for.

Traubenfuchs 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

My brain never liked vertical video, shortform content and AI slop.

Is my brain different or am I just a grumpy millenial hipster?

sebastiennight an hour ago | parent | next [-]

My current theory is that these are similar to cigarettes. Nobody likes the first draft, it burns your lungs, your entire body wants to reject it. But the nicotine stimulates just the right receptors so that if you keep at it for just long enough, you'll be hooked and start disregarding the terrible taste, smell, tar in your lungs, and yellowing of your teeth.

All of this to say, if you subjected yourself to just enough TikTok scrolling on just the right topic, you might find yourself using it occasionally after that initial hump, then slightly more frequently, then daily.

You might still not "like" it, but the habit is what matters.

rightbyte 4 minutes ago | parent [-]

I have the opposite theory. I burned my self out on cheap and bad image gen meme sites like 15 years ago until the point I hated memes.

Prior exposure to worse feeds gives like an analytical look on the vids rather than emotional. I am fast scanning for the joke. Or something.

xen_relay an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're not alone!

TMWNN 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I hope my brain is also different. I also have never spent hours scrolling through short-form videos on Instagram, TikTok, Facebok, etc. I never ever walk outside with my phone in my hand, instead enjoying the view.

I do enjoy watching YouTube videos at home, on the living-room flatscreen, on a variety of topics, but I select them manually, one at a time, from the vast selection The Algorithm(TM) offers me, plus my own searches.