A lot of these US vendors have data centers in the EU operating under EU law via legal entities in the EU. So, it's not all that black and white. And there are a growing amount of EU based alternatives.

And just to make a counter point, there are also US dependencies on the EU for some things as well. Mobile infrastructure is a good example; mostly comes from Nokia and Ericsson. What was left of US based network equipment makers was merged and acquired in the early 2000s. For example Bell Labs is currently owned by Nokia. It includes bits and bobs that once belonged to companies like Lucent and Motorola.

Another dependency is shipping; the US has very few ship yards left and is looking increasingly to the EU for things like icebreakers and some navy ships. Likewise, ASML the industry leader when it comes to making lithography machines used in chip making is based in the EU as well. And of course a lot of manufacturing uses machines made in e.g. Germany.

IMHO this mutual interdependence is actually a good thing. It stimulates maintaining peaceful relations and engaging in trade. We could use a little more of that. Isolationism didn't lead to anything good last century either.

▲

nicce an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> A lot of these US vendors have data centers in the EU operating under EU law via legal entities in the EU.

Didn’t even Microsoft say that they can’t guarantee that they can follow these laws? Because the US laws take over. So, legal entities are just some smoke screen. They don’t help if the US government wants access to something.

	▲	judge2020 29 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		I believe this was the Schrems 2 case from 2020 that declared that the EU US Privacy Shield was insufficient at guaranteeing the privacy of EU citizens due to the CLOUD act, which would require US companies work with the government to potentially spy on EU citizens. I’m not sure what has happened since then or the legal status of this issue.

▲

throwaway894345 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> IMHO this mutual interdependence is actually a good thing. It stimulates maintaining peaceful relations and engaging in trade. We could use a little more of that. Isolationism didn't lead to anything good last century either.

I think interdependence is a good thing, but I think the EU is _reliant_ on the US militarily and economically and that's ... not great particularly when the US leadership is openly hostile toward Europe (and toward the US for that matter). I'm speaking as an American.

▲

koe123 an hour ago | parent | next [-]

As it pertains to military, just wait a few years I think.

▲

InTheArena an hour ago | parent | next [-]

The last three times that Europe had a large independent military force(s), things didn't end so well for the world.

International commerce and business and shared democratic norms are a fscking good things. We have lost the people who learned that the hard way, and they are being replaced with people who have never read a history book.

	▲	nullsanity 13 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		[dead]

▲

throwaway894345 31 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

While I applaud the strides the EU is taking to decouple militarily, it's still a long ways away from replacing the security umbrella provided by the US military. The EU doesn't even have a single command and control structure (although NATO provides a lot of interoperability between European militaries). It's no knock on Europe's efforts--it's just that the dependency on US military was almost a century in the making--it's not going to be undone overnight. But Europe is moving in the right direction--I just hope Europe stays the course and continues to take it seriously.

▲

tonyhart7 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

what Europe option anyway ???? other than US another power that can fill up the space is China

or are european saying china is better than US ????

▲

650REDHAIR an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I don’t remember the last time China threatened to invade Denmark?

I do remember the last time the USA did. It was hours ago at a NATO summit.

▲

InTheArena an hour ago | parent [-]

s/China/Taiwan?

or Tibet?

You are comparing sensational trolls with actual geopolitical history.

	▲	surgical_fire 6 minutes ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Taiwan and Tibet are eminently not in Europe. Should we casually throw around all places the US invaded too?
	▲	650REDHAIR 8 minutes ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		Are you suggesting Trump is “trolling” Greenland? And admittedly I didn’t realize Taiwan was in Europe. Sorry.

▲

input_sh an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Well for one thing, China wasn't adamant about annexing territory belonging to a European nation like half a year ago.

	▲	dijit an hour ago \| parent [-]
		their eyes are firmly on Africa. Not being able to stand on our own feet is going to be a major problem because of the implied soft power. It nerfs our ability to ever have a spine on any issue.

▲

betorabinovich an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's certainly easier to do business with countries that aren't governed by a psychotic moron that likes to threaten your cost equation on a weekly basis to enrich its cronies

▲

lyu07282 41 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

China is very successfully developing and competing with the US, so it is self evident that Europe should continue to do the exact opposite of everything that China is doing.

	▲	throwaway894345 29 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		As an American, it helps that the US is actively self-sabotaging.