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andy99 5 hours ago

Engineering is a regulated term, afaik that’s what underlies the debate, it’s not about whether English has changed.

stymaar 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In my country (France), being an engineer (ingénieur, in French) is regulated but tied to a particular degree (which must be approved by the Commission des titres d'ingénieur), and as such I am legally a software engineer.

Tade0 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Same here in Poland. I believe the equivalent term in English is "Bachelor of Engineering". Four years instead of the regular three to obtain a typical bachelor's degree.

I studied at a technical university at its faculty of electrical engineering, but those who study at a "normal" university indeed go through the usual three years and are not engineers.

I guess the main difference is that I learned about analog circuits, semiconductors and all that, while those other guys didn't.

I don't have any special professional certificates, though I could optionally enroll on a course allowing me to work with voltages up to 1000V.

GuB-42 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In France, it is somewhat more complicated.

The title "ingénieur" is not regulated, it is a job title and anyone can have it if the position calls for it.

What is regulated however is the engineering degree ("diplôme d'ingénieur"), only some schools recognized by the state ("grandes écoles") can deliver it. It gives you the right to call yourself "ingénieur diplômé". Internationally, it counts as a masters degree.

As far as I know, it is a french system with no equivalent in other countries, and I don't know of any foreign school, even among the most prestigious that can deliver a "diplôme d'ingénieur".

Administratively, regulated professions (including doctors, lawyers, architects, etc... but not engineers in general) are regulated by the ministry of work, while the engineering degree is regulated by the ministry of education.

I am well aware of all that because my school (EPITA) went through the process of getting approval from the "Commission des Titres d'Ingénieur" while I was studying there so it was a pretty hot topic. The result is that I don't have a "diplôme d'ingénieur" (but I have a "degree in engineering", equivalent to a regular masters degree, love the play on words) but the next promotions do. My job title is still "engineer" in any case.

cromka 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Same in Poland and I imagine all of other countries in Europe which follow Bologna Process.

stavros 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Same in Greece, my degree is an engineering degree and I was enrolled to the engineers' guild when I graduated.

mfer 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Engineering is not a regulated term everywhere.

GroksBarnacles 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It many countries it actually is, if you call yourself an engineer professionally without a license you can be heavily fined. Canada, Germany, France..

stymaar 4 hours ago | parent [-]

I don't think you can be fined in France for that. Though I think you'll be fired without compensation or unemployment benefits.

analog31 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In the US, professional licensure is left to the states, and most states have some form of licensing for engineers along with reciprocity for transferring a license from one state to another. Commonly, engineers have an "industrial exemption" if they work for a company that makes a product rather than offering engineering services directly to the public (such as a civil or structural engineer might do).

I've held an "engineer" title at my day job from time to time, though I'm not an engineer and have no engineering degree. Only a couple of engineers at my work site have licenses. On the other hand, my brother in law was a nuclear engineer, and all of the engineers at the power plant were licensed.

One thing you'll notice is that small companies that do contract or consulting work will call themselves "research" or "technology" rather than using the E word on their web page.

figassis 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Ok, then there is regulated engineering and unregulated engineering. If you are doing engineering and it's not regulated (for many different reasons) it does not make it any less engineering. Animals do engineering, insects go engineering, it is based on science (empirical), whether they know it or not.

We need to stop redefining terms.

IAmBroom 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> Animals do engineering, insects go engineering, it is based on science (empirical), whether they know it or not.

I've never heard "instinctively doing things without conscious choice" to be engineering. That opens it up so wide it's meaningless - is blinking to rewet my eyeballs engineering? How about farting to relieve internal pressure?

And "empirical" explicitly means you consciously understand the reasons, so your comment is self-contradictory as well. Basically, words have meanings and you don't seem to know them.

figassis 4 hours ago | parent [-]

https://brainbound.blog/dams-animal-engineering-impact

I could be stretching, but to me, this is very conscious and intentional work, perfected through experience and there are many way to get it wrong. What exactly would we call this?