| ▲ | hx8 7 hours ago |
| Absolutely this. Fifteen years ago World of Warcraft was at its peak. You had 12 million people paying a monthly fee, plus buying the occasional expansion pack. No other gaming company had seen reoccurring revenue numbers like that before and it changed the industry. One aspect of this was that if you stopped paying you lost access to the game. The industry has been looking for the next way to level up this subscription model on gaming. Battle Passes, Xbox Live, Game Pass, Playstation Plus, Stadia, Game Fly, and a ton of other ideas. Sony is now using the stick to directly attack ownership instead of the carrot to entice subscriptions. We'll see how this plays in the PS6, but I think they are overplaying their position, especially with how underwhelming the PS5 has been received by gamers. I'm optimistic that the raise in PC gaming will act as a balance for the obvious greed of the consoles. It's becoming a larger and larger player in the non-mobile gaming market, and it's too big to be treated like a second class citizen anymore. The open platform prevents anyone from acting as a gatekeeper between game developers and players. For me personally, I began losing interest in consoles the first time I had to install a console game to a hard drive. The plug and play magic just fell apart. |
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| ▲ | benoau 7 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| > I'm optimistic that the raise in PC gaming will act as a balance for the obvious greed of the consoles. Why? Steam has never done anything to support ownership of games, their policy completely bans transferring licenses or accounts to other people or leaving them to someone when you die. Their next CEO is someone who has only known extreme wealth their whole life and gets the job because daddy started the company, when has that been a catalyst for societal good? GOG is the only one to have advocated a different status quo, but they have virtually no marketshare that could pressure developers and publishers to accept more equitable terms beyond eschewing DRM. |
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| ▲ | matthewfcarlson 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | This was actually a funny question at work over lunch. A few of us have kids and like most tech guys over 30, our steam accounts have turned into collections. So I asked, who gets your steam account when you kick it. It’s difficult to think about and seems baffling to spend thousands of dollars and hours assembling a collection only for it to poof away into nothing. | | |
| ▲ | seff 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | When we were in college, one of my friends joked that their stream library was their largest financial asset. When stream trading was more of a thing, and we had a ramen diet, it was probably true | | |
| ▲ | kennyadam 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | It’s steam, not stream. Normally, I’d assume it’s a simple typo, but I got worried when you wrote it twice. Fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me… you can't get fooled again. |
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| ▲ | lstodd 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Haha. I actually back up my steam collection via torrents of GoG releases. Now, I can to some extent automate the rip-out of steam integration, there are solutions. And thus not rely on torrents. But why would I if it's the same thing in the end, and torrents are that much simpler. |
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| ▲ | hx8 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm optimistic about PC gaming because if Steam begins acting as an evil gatekeeper then game developers can adopt other avenues to deliver the games to their players. It's an open platform. People are using Steam now because it adds value. People will stop using Steam if it subtracts value. | |
| ▲ | RHSeeger 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Can't you download your game off steam and play it forever; and if it can't connect to the service, it will just let you play offline? Sure, that loses out on the ability to transfer it to a friend, but it's better. | | |
| ▲ | benoau 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Some of them do, the Total War games I play the most require weekly online activation. But that's just using what you payed for, it only very slightly overlaps with what actually owning something entails. | | |
| ▲ | RHSeeger 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Is that online activation Steam or is it a third party thing? Steam allows selling games that have external DRM like that. I think they, themselves, don't do it. That doesn't invalidate your other point. | | |
| ▲ | Macha 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Steamworks, the integration library for games to interact with Steam features, has an optional DRM component. It's not a particularly impressive one, so it's more about stopping people copy/pasting their steamapps folder than stopping dedicated pirates, hence why so many publishers use alternative solutions. |
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| ▲ | kelvinjps10 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Steam haven't put shenanigans like this because they have many competitors and PC users would leave them, the have built trust within the gaming community | |
| ▲ | mannanj 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The same reason you can be pessimistic? Maybe if you look for evidence to be pessimistic, you find that, and if you look for evidence to be optimistic you find that. I'd rather choose the more positive, hopeful perspective than the negative, downer one. What about you? | | |
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| ▲ | PaulKeeble 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| People still don't own their games with Steam, the main PC platform. I don't think its going under anytime soon and currently its reasonably customer friendly but as we have seen these big tech companies can turn on their customer base at any moment. GOG is about the only way to actually own the games since no DRM is applied and you can download the entire package and keep it and don't require their launcher. PC already went digital no ownership for most people unfortunately. His argument that it isn't the same doesn't wash, you still can't sell them or lend them to someone else and you have to hack around Steam's DRM, which is a loophole that can be closed at any point. |
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| ▲ | aceazzameen 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | You talk as if all Steam games use Steam DRM. No, it's not GOG but it's not the same category as Sony and Microsoft at all. It's starting to sound disingenuous when I see Steam lumped together with them. | | |
| ▲ | Uvix 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Until Steam starts telling me before I buy which games have their DRM and which doesn't, they belong in the same category as Sony and Microsoft. | | |
| ▲ | greycol 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | It's always listed in the same spot on all the store page for games. Now why they haven't allowed us to filter games by DRM (like they have f2p) is another question. I'd love if they allowed this and published stats because I like most people assume I'm in the majority and would love to see that you're cutting off access to X% of your market if you include rootkits/aggressive drm. | | |
| ▲ | Uvix an hour ago | parent [-] | | Only additional third-party DRM is listed there, not Steam's own DRM. |
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| ▲ | hx8 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I think it's a fair comparison. Steam can change their behavior to become much more user hostile at any point, and hold our triple digit steam libraries hostage. | | |
| ▲ | PaulKeeble 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | Its not like we can sell or even lend the games from Steam that we have, not without breaking the licence terms and hacking around the DRM. Its precisely the same as what Sony is intending to enforce. | | |
| ▲ | nemomarx 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Can you sell or lend gog games, though? You can transfer the files obviously but if a steam game comes with no drm (which is pretty common for indies) you can do the same thing. GOG nicely requires everyone on their platform to do this but ultimately the devs have to want to not put in drm too. |
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| ▲ | kanemcgrath 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Also the steam DRM on a lot of single player games can be removed very easily. https://github.com/atom0s/Steamless and is a recommended step for engine modding games like skyrim. |
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| ▲ | thfuran 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I’m not nearly so optimistic. I think we have a generation of kids now who mostly never owned any physical media, having grown up with Netflix instead of vhs/dvd, Spotify instead of CDs, steam instead of retail games, etc. |
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| ▲ | hx8 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | I'm pessimistic about physical media yes. That's a legacy technology at this point. |
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| ▲ | willdr 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Unfortunately the AI bubble means we are witnessing the death of PC gaming. Watch the GamersNexus video, The Collapse of Personal Computing: https://youtu.be/zyQwAhppWj8 Costs are driving manufacturers out of business. Essential components for PCs are becoming out of reach for the average consumer. You will own nothing and be happy. |
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| ▲ | tayo42 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Is there really a rise in PC gaming going on? Isn't that dependent on people having PCs and hardware? |
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| ▲ | hx8 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes. Look at the market research. It's growing specifically fast in Asia, but there is also strong growth with North America. Having a PC to check your email, order off amazon, and download recipes is dying. Buying a PC and using it for video games is raising. The PC hardware is getting more expensive, but the upgrade cycles are also extending. If you look at the steam hardware survey most gamers are 1-3 GPU generations behind. If you look at the total cost of ownership PC gaming is not awful compared to consoles. It's higher, but not as high as the initial price tag makes it look. There is no monthly Playstation Plus or Xbox Live subscription. These can run between $80/yr to $240/yr. PC games often have access to deeper discounts. The PC has additional utility, and modern PC components are holding exceptional resell value. | | |
| ▲ | numpad0 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I think the effect of Twitch/YouTube can't be ignored. PC games are easier content source for streamers, and PC remains better platform for viewers for watching streams. Consoles are still quite focused on single task content consumption. | |
| ▲ | keyringlight 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | For the kinds of games where DRM free matters, where they don't have a prominent online/multiplayer side or the equivalent of playing the game 'from the disc', is the console subscription really an issue? I don't have a console myself, but from when I've looked into it there's a bunch of mainly free to play games where that subscription isn't needed as both the publisher and Sony/MS get their money from purchases. | | |
| ▲ | hx8 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | 1. An Xbox Live/Playstation Plus is required for any online multiplayer functionality. 2. DRM Free still matters with multiplayer games. Minecraft is a perfect example, where you can run your own client/server and play with people, and there really doesn't need to be any other middle man involved. 3. With how good home internet is now, it's not a big deal to host game servers from your home on an old computer. Running big central servers really only matters if you care about matchmaking or games with a lot of simultaneous players. | | |
| ▲ | MYEUHD 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > 1. An Xbox Live/Playstation Plus is required for any online multiplayer functionality. This is false. Free-to-Play titles like Fortnite don't require a subscription to play online. |
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| ▲ | tayo42 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Hmm I see, that's interesting. Seems like the games industry it self is in a pretty bad state despite that | | |
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