| ▲ | bradleyjg 7 hours ago |
| Google’s just-released 2025 sustainability report is an instructive example. The company said it consumed 10.9 billion gallons of water—a 34% increase from 2024—almost all for data-center cooling. … Google consumes around three times as much water indirectly as directly, according to a paper published earlier this year by Alex de Vries-Gao, a researcher at the Netherlands-based university VU Amsterdam. — My take: they should report this in acre-feet instead of gallons, and then compare it to a crop, alfalfa for example. My back of the envelope says even at the larger number Google is using the enough water to grow about 23,000 acres of alfalfa. That would produce about 138,000 tons which would sell for about $34 million. |
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| ▲ | gordonhart 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| I find golf courses to be a more effective framing. Even if the alfalfa is consumed by animals, it's still a part of the food supply chain and gives people the easy response, "yeah, but we need to eat, we don't need datacenters." Google's 10.9B gallons in 2025 is equivalent to ~55 18-hole golf courses (200M gallons/year average in the US). Which provided more value to the economy and to you as an individual last year? Google or 55 out of ~15k total golf courses in the US? |
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| ▲ | jaredcwhite 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | The golf courses in my town provide infinitely more value to me than anything from Google. And I don't even golf. | | |
| ▲ | bryanlarsen 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | You might not use any Google products. But pretty much all of your goods and services providers do. Google is providing significant value to you second hand. |
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| ▲ | adjejmxbdjdn 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The $34 million gives the idea that the water is worth $34 million, but the water costs of growing Alfalfa (largely to be used in the extremely inefficient animal agriculture industry), are a small fraction of the overall costs. Labor and 23,000 acres of land and seeds and fertilizers etc would be a significantly greater cost contributing to the $34 million value. |
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| ▲ | bradleyjg 7 hours ago | parent [-] | | My point was that google generates hundreds of billions of dollars from the same water that $34 million in alfalfa. It’s absurd to complain about their usage. Water use policy is about agriculture, agriculture, and also agricultural. Everything else is a distraction. | | |
| ▲ | bluefirebrand 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > My point was that google generates hundreds of billions of dollars from the same water that $34 million in alfalfa Food is more important than whatever google does. :/ | | |
| ▲ | bradleyjg 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Radical Luddite posting on the internet is … something. | | |
| ▲ | defrost 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It wasn't the Looms / technology they hated - it was being put out of work and discarded. | |
| ▲ | bluefirebrand 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What's your argument here? I would love to hear why you think food is not actually more important than data centers. |
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| ▲ | bix6 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | How is everything else a distraction? We are overusing our water budget so every little piece on top is extra impactful. | | |
| ▲ | loudmax 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Agriculture uses orders of magnitudes more water than data centers. A 50% cut in water use by data centers will have nowhere near the impact of a 5% cut in water use by agriculture. But data centers can generate orders of magnitude more revenue. Say rain water is leaking into your house from two holes in the roof: one is 1 meter in diameter, the other is 1cm. Any effort you spend plugging the 1cm hole is a distraction from the 1m hole you really need to focus on. You could make an argument that agriculture is different because we need agricultural products to live. But we don't need those specific products to live (alfalfa, almonds, etc), and they could be grown far more efficiently if water were priced by market rates. | | |
| ▲ | bix6 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | That 1cm leak is going to lead to mold in my house so both need to be addressed. | | |
| ▲ | xnx 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Maybe imagine your in a canoe with a hole the size of your fist and another hole the size of a pin. Where do you spend your time to keep from sinking? |
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| ▲ | lostmsu 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > data centers can generate orders of magnitude more revenue You can't eat data. | | |
| ▲ | karahime 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | Yes, just like you can't eat trucks, roads, grocery stores, tractors, combines, crop dusters, grain silos, mills, or the FDA. Any system needs many components, most of which aren't directly consumed by someone. | | |
| ▲ | lostmsu 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Missing the point. There's absolute bare minimum food that you need to eat regardless of everything else. | | |
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| ▲ | bradleyjg 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don’t really know how to rephrase it. It’s a distraction. This article could have been about shipping alfalfa to the Middle East and Asia, but instead it was about this. | | |
| ▲ | bix6 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | That’s not a distraction. It’s one of the many ways in which data centers are problematic. Why shouldn’t it be talked about as such? |
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| ▲ | Veserv an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| To add on, that is just ~40 million m^3 of water. Desalination, turning unlimited sea water into fresh water which is one of the most expensive sources of fresh water, is ~0.50 $/m^3. They can literally manufacture the water they use with zero impact on the water table for ~20 million dollars. |
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| ▲ | gordonhart an hour ago | parent [-] | | Neat, implementing this would be a great marketing move for Google/OpenAI/Amazon/MS. Relatively cheap way to win a lot of goodwill from the millions of people who don't know much about the space but are swayed by current water usage arguments. Of course location matters a ton in the water usage argument but I'm not sure how relevant this actually is when it comes to winning over hearts and minds. |
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| ▲ | verdverm an hour ago | parent | prev [-] |
| I saw a criticism of the alfalfa comparison because, given the circumstances, there isn't anything better to plant where alfalfa grows. That you'd spend more water growing corn in other places or something like that. If we want to deal with alfalfa water use, eat less red meat. Not sure how legit it is, but there is certainly more nuance to water usage. I prefer the golf course analogy, which uses 2-3x the water of data centers and has dubious benefit to society beyond the entertainment for those who can afford the "green" fees |
