As a technical product manager, this 1000%. It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business.

▲ AdieuToLogic 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> As a technical product manager, this 1000%. It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business.

If you are, in fact, "a technical product manager", I would hope you understand that "bad code" is identified as such specifically because it "impacts the business."

▲ Schiendelman an hour ago | parent [-]

That is not how most engineers define bad code.

▲ AdieuToLogic an hour ago | parent [-]

> That is not how most engineers define bad code.

The engineers I have worked with most definitely define "bad code" as having intrinsic limitations and/or latent defects which impact successful system functionality/operation. Indicators provided to stakeholders such as yourself which support this assessment are, but not limited to:

  - the system doesn't work that way
  - the system lacks test coverage, so changes take longer
  - adding feature "X" is not feasible
  - there is no repeatable way to onboard team members
  - the backlog grows exponentially
  - that "one point task" is going to take a couple weeks

All of the above impacts a business.

It is up to you, the "technical product manager", to understand what your team is trying to tell you.

▲

Schiendelman an hour ago | parent [-]

Please stop being rude to me. I'm a human being, I'm a very experienced product manager and engineer (you can google my name, I'm the only one), and the way you are behaving sucks.

Everything you're saying is true, sometimes. Assume I'm still right, and that you might be able to learn something from someone else.

	▲	AdieuToLogic 34 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> Please stop being rude to me. I do not see how I was being rude, unless it was my use of quotations around the title you claim. > I'm a human being ... I did not doubt this. > ... I'm a very experienced product manager and engineer ... Again, if it was my use of quotations which you found to be rude, then I do not know what to say about that. > ... and the way you are behaving sucks. I respect your perspective and support your right to express yourself. And no, I do not think you are being rude by doing so. > Assume I'm still right ... Why would I? You responded to: >> This is a site full of developers who are convinced that "proper software engineering" is 100% of what makes a business successful, and everything and everyone else is useless. With: > As a technical product manager, this 1000%. Finally, you write: > ... you might be able to learn something from someone else. Maybe you can learn something from someone else as well.

▲ nomel 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

This is something I wish I understood sooner. There is strong merit to "good enough".

Of all the "concise" and "beautiful" code I worked hard to produce, I was the only one to ever lay eyes on it. It didn't actually matter, and nobody cared but me. The people in charge of my raises could never perceive quality of code, because it wasn't their area of expertise. They only cared (rightly so) that it did what it was supposed to, and all the elegant abstractions didn't practically help that purpose. It was, literally, wasted life that I should have spent just getting off work early, like most of my colleagues.