Europe (which could mean anything from the UK to Belgium to Hungary to Turkey) never had absolute freedom of speech like the US. But yes, even by the US standards to champion freedom of speech, it is in retreat.

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egeozcan 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I'm saying this with love, so hear me out: Turkey has nothing to do with what comes to mind when you talk about anything European, except maybe some parts of Istanbul and Izmir.

I was born and raised in Turkey, and I have been living in Germany for nearly two decades, and I have Greeks, Bulgarians and Kurdish in my family too (no. I don't take pills to survive), so I know what I'm talking about.

It's not about inferiority/superiority, it's just a completely, unmistakably different culture, perspective on life, degree of pragmatism, and... everything. Especially when it comes to the topic at hand, freedom of speech. I think the Ottomans have a lasting effect there. The Turkish search for the new sultan never ends. You may say that some tendency in dictatorship exists everywhere, but in Turkey, you'll see authoritarian ambitions in the speeches of even the most supposedly liberal people.

I also have to say, I'm not even talking about religion. Perhaps the most religious groups, Muslim or Christian or Jewish, are the groups with the most similarities actually.

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blitzar 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

never had absolute freedom of speech like the US, which itself (since it was colonised) never had absolute freedom of speech.

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jampekka 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, Article 11:

Freedom of expression and information

1. Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers.

2. The freedom and pluralism of the media shall be respected.

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loeg 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Is this the right of freedom of expression? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/09/09/pimmelgate-g...

	▲	niemandhier 14 hours ago \| parent [-]
		In our legal system not all way to express your opinion are protected. Death threats, insults and promises of rape can be considered ways to express yourself, but any opinion worth expressing can be stated without. Sure, this can be the first step to the suppression of dissenting points of view. The thing is: Before the nazis came to power, they made everybody else afraid to state their mind with open threats and violence. So it’s painfully obvious that unmoderated free speech can also be used to suppress dissenting opinions.

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mrtksn 18 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I got the impression that free speech in the US is limited to right to annoy people and harass politicians from distance. Seems to be more restricted than Europe actually since access is tied to private property and its culturally acceptable to remove people from private spaces if you don't like their speech. In this particular case the US embassy appears to have "hacked" their way by claiming that those journalists are a threat but if it was in US they could have been removed and have their free speech in a designated area simply because they don't want them there.

You can give finger to Trump from distance but you can't attend to his press conference to actually ask him stuff if he doesn't like you. That's just slightly different from Turkey where you will be arrested for giving the finger to Erdogan's motorcade(happened a few times, then Turks learned their lessons and in the stats Turkey doesn't arrest as much as Britain).

In contrast, in most of Europe you usually can approach and ask politicians whatever you like.

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aa-jv 17 hours ago | parent [-]

>I got the impression that free speech in the US is limited to right to annoy people and harass politicians from distance.

That's a pretty trite way of looking at it. You could see for example how important free speech was to the US' civil rights movement in making sure that people were able to organize to challenge the status quo.

>.. if it was in US they could have been removed and have their free speech in a designated area simply because they don't want them there.

US' citizens generally have a better time in courts challenging such things than Europeans do, however.

>In contrast, in most of Europe you usually can approach and ask politicians whatever you like.

But can you tell them whatever you like without facing repercussion if they don't like what they're hearing? No.

In the US, you can still exercise your right to free speech to inform your fellow citizens about the genocide of Gaza - in Europe, most definitely not so easy. (Some European states, its easier than others ...)

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mrtksn 17 hours ago | parent [-]

US civil rights movement? Seriously? Different times different people. In the latest free speech crusade a rich guy just changed the kind of speech is allowed on his platform. Online speech is heavily restricted on US platforms, as accounts are shadow banned/rate limited/deleted all the time. What freedom of speech examples do you have that involve living people? Every single one freedom of speech fighter are fascist who demand some other speech be suppressed and theirs amplified. Remember their attitudes over the Charlie Kirk assassination reactions?

I don't really care about the courts in this, you win in court and never speak again anything new because you don't want to go through all this again.

And who cares if you can tell someone something if you can't engage with them. Are you casting a spell? why would you care someone hears you? In USA they take you to safe distance behind some barriers to tell your thing. Useless stuff.

I don't know why you believe that you can't inform people about the genocide of Gaza in Europe, in fact Europeans are significantly more informed on this and having flotillas and what not.

US free speech seems to be performative. Its even limited to words, they try not to say the N word and do all their racism without that, then they are relieved when they end up saying the N word and claim freedom of speech win. It's weird from European perspective.

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complianceowll 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If you're not going to give reliable sources and at least point to a couple specific examples, then your comment means nothing.

"in fact Europeans are significantly more informed on this", "US free speech seems to be performative".

And then there's the, "Are you casting a spell?". You really think you did something there lol.

Sources. Examples. Otherwise, you're just someone who can string together complete sentences and break up concepts into paragraphs for easy reading.

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mrtksn 17 hours ago | parent [-]

Europeans are able to talk whatever they like about Gaza, WTF? Go Google Greta Thunberg, go research for the Gaza flotillas, go find the polls on the issue if you want sources.

What you can't do is to demand killing of the Jewish people and I like it stay like that. That's significantly more freedom than US where you can loose your career, government funding, you can get deported or visa denied etc. if you talk about the genocide in Gaza.

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aa-jv an hour ago | parent | next [-]

>Europeans are able to talk whatever they like about Gaza, WTF?

I see you're not paying much attention to the streets of Berlin.

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complianceowll 16 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I say this in all seriousness: are you that ideologically brainwashed that you think Americans can't talk about Gaza whenever we like? Haha. Bud, stop living vicariously through headlines, touch grass, and understand that the headlines your wonderful algorithm is feeding is not real life....."WTF?"

Your last paragraph is a bit incoherent, so I don't know exactly how to respond, but no, I am not demanding the killing of Jewish people nor the killing of any Palestinian.

I can always tell when someone is off the rails in ideology because the picture they paint is so detached from reality that it doesn't hold under the most minor scrutiny.

That someone is you.

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mrtksn 16 hours ago | parent [-]

Of course they can talk about Gaza, its just that they may face the wrath of the US government in form of funding cuts like this: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/sep/03/trump-admini...

TBF USA is very restrictive on speech, just less direct about it. All platforms are American and we can see that speech is strictly restricted through indirect means. Even here, I had my account rate limited so many times on political topics.

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complianceowll 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Nah

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mrtksn 16 hours ago | parent [-]

I even have to be polite to you despite your attitude, if you were in Europe as well that would have been optional :)

	▲	complianceowll 16 hours ago \| parent [-]
		Still nah :)

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aa-jv an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

What you don't seem to be able to differentiate, not unusual for a Euro-centric view, is that you can indeed talk about whatever you want in public - but the platforms you despise are not public - they are privately owned and operated platforms which provide a degree of public discourse.

I can stand outside on the street corner in any street in LA with a sign in my hands that says "JAIL OUR WAR CRIMINALS" any time of day .. but if you try to do that in Berlin, Paris, Amsterdam, you will get a visit and told to move along.

I say this on the basis of direct personal experience in all cases. It is far, far harder to protest the Gaza genocide than it should be - in both the US and Europe, to be frank - but in the US I at least have the courts to resort to if someone comes and smashes my signs.

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aa-jv an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

>US civil rights movement? Seriously? Different times different people.

Within living memory for some of us. So not that different really.

>What freedom of speech examples do you have that involve living people?

Julian Assange, Edward Snowden, Virginia Guiffre. Medea Benjamin.

You may argue that these are individuals whose speech was limited - and it was - but they have been protected nevertheless by the US' free speech laws, or they wouldn't have made as big a fuss as they have in the first place.

>Every single one freedom of speech fighter are fascist who demand some other speech be suppressed and theirs amplified.

This is a gross generalization.

>I don't know why you believe that you can't inform people about the genocide of Gaza in Europe, in fact Europeans are significantly more informed on this and having flotillas and what not.

Just try to show people the situation in Gaza, on the streets of Vienna, and see how far you get before the police turn up to suppress your right to discuss the atrocities in public.

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18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[deleted]