Then we should have timezones based not just on longitude, but also latitude. So northerly locales can get some sleep in the spring/summer/fall.

> If your issue is when work is scheduled, well businesses set their own hours, not the government.

Ah, someone who doesn't have kids in school/camp/some random activity yet.

We know how this goes in China (one time zone, no daylight savings time). Coming home from the bar in Beijing with the sun showing up at 4 AM was quaint back then, but I'm definitely glad we have DST in the states.

Working hours will not change.

I will fight tooth and nail against attempts to take one hour of daylight from me in the evenings for half of the year.

Businesses don’t care how much sun you get

> businesses set their own hours, not the government

In plenty of countries the government decides the opening hours of shops, restaurants and sometimes even offices. Labour laws and nighttime pay are coupled to the hours on the clock. Hours you can make noise is decided by government. Germany has the mid-day resting hour (Mittagsruhe).

The government sets the hours of the schools, which in turn drives the schedules of a fair chunk of society.

Permanent DST is just a synonym for "let's all agree to wake up an hour earlier." The same change could be affected by e.g. schools and businesses agreeing to open at 8am instead of 9am. (Of course that would be wildly unpopular so permanent DST is just way to trick people into swallowing the pill.)

But would behavior change in the long run? Countries like Spain where solar noon differs wildly from clock noon just end up aligning their rituals accordingly (e.g. eating dinner at 9pm).

More tyranny inflicted upon the rest of us by morning people

> The average is like past midnight

Jesus, for what age group?

I'm an outlier because I have to be at work at 6:30 AM daily (so I get up around 5:15), so staying up past 10 PM is a rarity and I see midnight maybe two or three times a year. I don't think I've slept past 8 AM in the past decade, even on vacation. But I haven't even frequently stayed up past midnight since my mid-twenties, and even then didn't do so every night. I'd have been too sleep-deprived.

Curtains would make the sun set later in summer and rise earlier in winter?

My work starts at 9am, therefore I wake up around 7am. My work start time does not adjust based on the seasons. Any sun before 7am is wasted for me.

Under DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 5am, giving me 2 hours of wasted sunlight.

Without DST, at summer solstice, the sun rises around 4am, giving me 3 hours of wasted sunlight.

I enjoy having additional hours of sunlight when I am awake, so for me I actually prefer having DST vs without it.

Similarly, in the wintertime, under permanent DST, sunrise is around 9am, and I don't want to drive to work in the dark.

4am sunrise seems ludicrously early to me, but then again, even a 5am sunrise is awfully early.

I can see the DST argument for people where the shift kinda sorta works out, but many places (like Anchorage!) it's completely unnecessary. I live in Sweden and it's just the twice annually "ah shit the clock moved overnight."

Appealing to population is a stupid argument. DST as a policy is designed for places at higher latitudes, and the the majority of the planet do not live at higher latitudes. DST exists to maintain a more consistent time of sunrise across seasons.

DST is moronic in any part of the world close to the equator. There is not enough seasonal adjustment in the time of sunrise to justify adjusting the clocks. And in places of the world such as the middle east, they have an active policy of avoiding the sun and a policy of DST (which maximizes sunlight while awake) is antithetical to how society functions.