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| ▲ | ipython 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Just to be clear, the January 6 defendants: - were a group of at least 1000 people - who, among other things, erected a noose on the capitol grounds, brought zip ties and weapons - forcefully overran several capital police barricades intended to deter their entrance - used any weapon available including poles etc to violently attack any police in their way Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents with a firearm, but in the J6 case, I’d say I’d lay blame for the subsequent deaths of the police officers who did die at the hands of the rioters. To be clear I do not condone violence in either case. However those 1000+ individuals on January 6 were ultimately pardoned for their actions. The family of one was in fact paid $5 million in taxpayer money because she was shot in a vain attempt to repel the crowd. Why then should these defendants be treated completely differently? One gets the law, the other has their convictions overturned completely and history rewritten in their favor. Btw I do not believe the individual who was charged in the article shot the federal agent or was part of the “concealed position” etc. So bringing that up is just an appeal to brush that individual with the actions of others. | | |
| ▲ | dmurray 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | > Why then should these defendants be treated completely differently? One gets the law, the other has their convictions overturned completely and history rewritten in their favor. The Jan 6 rioters did "get the law". They got sentenced collectively to thousands of years in prison, and many of them served 3 years of that. Then they "got the law" again when someone sympathetic to their aims was democratically elected to the one position that can grant federal pardons. That power has a history of being used for political allies long before Trump. Perhaps that will happen to some of the ICE protestors too. | |
| ▲ | paisawalla 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm sorry to disagree with a venerable python shell like this, but even if I accept your entire characterization here, these two situations look nothing alike. > - were a group of at least 1000 people > Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents with a firearm, but in the J6 case, I’d say I’d lay blame for the subsequent deaths of the police officers who did die at the hands of the rioters. Oh ok, so you grant we're talking about completely different scales of intention, personal responsibility, and outcomes, but you want to keep making this comparison? Because you think it's nuanced and informative? | | |
| ▲ | ipython an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | So you’re telling me the jan6 defendants had no intention to cause harm to the lawmakers? Actual people died on jan6- nobody died at prarieland afaik. Have you seen the footage from the riots? They clobbered the shit out of the police trying to protect the lawmakers inside the capitol. For example this guy: https://i.insider.com/6009c83521f52a0018cb9e21?width=1200&fo... I’m sure he was just on his way to rebundle some loose cat5 cable down the hall with his zip ties. And the person who is the subject of this article, did he personally commit all the acts you listed? | | |
| ▲ | iamnothere 17 minutes ago | parent [-] | | For clarity, only people who died on Jan 6th were protestors. The police officer who died on the 7th had a stroke. The two who died later were suicides. It’s negligent to conceal these facts. (Note for clarity, almost everybody posting in this thread on every side is doing this kind of thing. Just move on to the “years of lead” phase already.) |
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| ▲ | anigbrowl 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | The different scale of intention was to overturn the results of a federal general election, effectively a coup to seize back control over the government. I can see why you consider the incident in Texas to be terrorism, but you want to ignore the entire point of the J6 event and pretend it was just some normal event where a few participants got a little out of hand? Get real. | |
| ▲ | goatlover an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Give me a beak. The J6 rioters wanted to hang the Vice President and members of Congress. They had violent intent. |
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| ▲ | cucumber3732842 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | How many federal agitators were present in both groups? I'm dead serious. I assume every event like this is lousy with feds egging people on. | | |
| ▲ | ipython an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Ugh let’s not get all conspiracy theory up in here. Show me real evidence of that and I’ll believe you. Until then - to say at the same time - the Feds are so incompetent and also the Feds are organizing an elaborate secret network of agitators to be at all major protests and riots - let’s just say the logic doesn’t logic. | | |
| ▲ | mothballed 16 minutes ago | parent [-] | | They are incompetent at catching crime generated by other people. They're very good at catching crime they generate themselves. |
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| ▲ | malcolmgreaves an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Trump helped organize and encourage the January 6th insurrection. He was president during the insurrection. So yes, there was a lot of federal Republican help during that one. |
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| ▲ | joe_mamba 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | >Granted they did not explicitly shoot any federal agents Then you admit that makes it completely different. >However those 1000+ individuals on January 6 were ultimately pardoned for their actions Biden also pardoned Fauci for lying about Covid, his son, amongst other people. They're all equally crooked but somehow HN only remembers Trump's crimes. | | |
| ▲ | ipython an hour ago | parent [-] | | No the jan6 rioters just used poles and batons and such to beat the shit out of police- some who died afterward. https://youtu.be/DXnHIJkZZAs?si=zDKJcly9KMBY_GgJ I mean - seriously? It’s ok to do this? | | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba an hour ago | parent [-] | | So did anti-ICE protestors. Meaning both need to get arrested by the same yardstick. HN was ok when J6 got arrested but not OK wehn anti ICE rioters get arrested. Double standards much? Meanwhile both political sides rob you blind but you feel the need to take sides and argue which side of corrupt pedos you think represents you when neither do. | | |
| ▲ | ipython an hour ago | parent [-] | | Shifting the goal posts. I’m talking about the selective prosecution and you’ve tried to equate that with hn sentiment. Does it really matter what the double standard is for a bunch of keyboard warriors arguing over imaginary internet points? No! But it makes a shit ton of difference when the state, with a monopoly on violence and justice, makes a public showing over its double standard. That double standard has impacts on the freedom and lives of people. And your nihilism is exactly how we got into this mess in the first place. “They all suck, so why not elect the clown and see how much he can shake things up”. | | |
| ▲ | joe_mamba an hour ago | parent [-] | | > “They all suck, so why not elect the clown and see how much he can shake things up”. I didn't say that, I just called out the overall HN hypocrisy on sniffing out only Trump crimes but ignoring identical democrat crimes. | | |
| ▲ | ipython an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | So again the hn hypocrisy doesn’t matter. The only thing on the line for me is whether my imaginary internet points balance increases or decreases. The feds on the other hand have the power to send you to federal prison or to pardon you and literally pay you off. Given that we don’t have God himself running for president, we have to suffice with imperfect representation. And so yes I end up picking a side because that’s the system we have at the moment. As to your point about “picking sides” - why aren’t you upset about the pardons yourself in that matter? Shouldn’t they be held accountable? | |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Your partisanship is extremely obvious, please stop insulting everyone's intelligence. | |
| ▲ | mingus88 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | HN is a collection of people with varying viewpoints and backgrounds posting arbitrarily throughout the day. There is no single position to be hypocritical of. The “Hypocrisy” you are experiencing here is just you having to sort through other people’s opinions and getting upset at the ones that disagree with yours. |
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| ▲ | Rebelgecko 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Fwiw some of the people sentenced to decades in prison went home before your bullet points happened. And although the second amendment may not cover first aid kits, that's a super lame justification for sending people to prison for the rest of their lives. I guess it's a good thing Boy Scout troops don't coordinate over signal or they'd all be locked up. | |
| ▲ | OutOfHere 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Huh. None of your first three points is meant to be illegal. - coordinating using a Signal group - bringing firearms, body armor, and first aid kits to a location just outside a federal facility - taking up a concealed position along a tree line For you to even list them shows a fascist bent. As for fireworks, they might not be illegal either. The only possible crime is the shooting, and only if it was not done in self defense. | | |
| ▲ | paisawalla 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | [flagged] | | |
| ▲ | ipython 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | I do want violent criminals prosecuted. But the problem is that there is a very clear signal given that prosecution is highly selective. I made my point earlier - if this administration cared about prosecuting violent criminals, they would never have even considered pardoning the J6 criminals. They would additionally call for swift and thorough investigations on the use of force against the killings of protesters in Minneapolis in order to ensure that law enforcement is seen as accountable to the public. But none of that has happened. And won’t happen. It astounds me that this hypocrisy isn’t screaming like nails on a chalkboard! | | |
| ▲ | paisawalla an hour ago | parent [-] | | I don't accept that J6 involved over one thousand violent criminals and you seem to be incredulous that others don't hold this prior. You also seem unwilling to acknowledge severe differences in the grade of violence being discussed, even when you begrudgingly admit that such differences exist (but then caveat them with your own speculative conclusions) If you constrain your analysis to: who is a violent actor, and how severe was the violent act in question, I think you can produce a more reasonable comment tbf. As is, your comment seems quite unreasonable as you don't believe anyone else can see these obvious and material differences. | | |
| ▲ | anigbrowl 31 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | The J6 crowd broke into and overran the legislature to prevent the Constitutional transfer of power from one President to another, following a rally organized by the President that was about to lose power. You are talking like it was a coincidence that they just happened to be there and spontaneously decided to do some trespassing for fun. If you constrain your analysis to: who is a violent actor, and how severe was the violent act in question, I think you can produce a more reasonable comment tbf. OK. Let's look at this case of a guy who actually murdered a security guard at a federal building in cold blood, for political reasons, in a drive-by shooting that was organized in advance using the internet. He got 41 years, vs this other guy getting 100 years for attempted murder. https://www.npr.org/2022/02/11/1080311940/alleged-boogaloo-m... | |
| ▲ | ipython an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Ok sure not every of the 1500 people pardoned by Trump could be considered “violent”. Have you watched the videos? There’s definitely more than one. And you’re shifting the goalposts by implying (falsely) that the person covered in the article also personally committed all the offences you mentioned earlier, including shooting a federal officer. And don’t just take my word for it. There is a good amount of recidivism by those who received pardons. Almost 100 have subsequently been charged with other crimes, including child molestation. I’d consider someone who, after getting pardoned for the j6 riot, continuing on to diddle kids, a violent criminal. > Perhaps most strikingly, five recipients of presidential clemency were arrested in connection with conduct that occurred at least in part subsequent to Trump’s freeing them from prison—meaning that Trump’s clemency order on the first day of his second term may have actively facilitated criminal conduct. These include: > Andrew Paul Johnson, who was freed from prison as a result of the pardon in 2025, was convicted of five charges, including child molestation, in February 2026, and sentenced to life in prison. The criminal conduct for which he was convicted took place both before and after his pardon. > Zachary Alam, who was convicted of felony charges of grand larceny and burglary just months after his pardon. > Ryan Nichols, who was charged with deadly conduct and harassment on May 10, 2026, after allegedly threatening a person with a gun in a church parking lot. https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/the-jan-6-pardons--how-... | |
| ▲ | malcolmgreaves an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | J6 was organized as a violent insurrection from the beginning. |
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| ▲ | ipython 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Btw - > If you want to concede that it's fascist to want violent criminals prosecuted, I believe it is fascist to bring trumped up charges for ridiculousness. Say for example the case of “sandwich guy” who the DoJ spent three attempts at a grand jury to bring federal charges. For throwing a fully loaded Subway sandwich at a kitted out ICE officer. Started by sending a full swat team of twenty armed agents to his apartment. Complete with a slickly produced propaganda video for your enjoyment! https://x.com/WhiteHouse/status/1956114803295953325 Mind you this is, once again, for the violent crime of throwing an Italian hoagie at a federal officer with full body armor. Then they failed to get a grand jury to indict him on felony assault … finally charging him with misdemeanor assault. Thankfully he was acquitted. Tell me that’s not fascist. | |
| ▲ | ndsipa_pomu 34 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > I think if you append "with the intention to commit a violent crime" to each item on the list, you'll see the issue. That's problematic as you could literally append that to any action and thus condemn it as illegal e.g. met to have some coffees and a chat ... with the intention to commit a violent crime. The problem is that there's not necessarily any connection between the activity and the alleged violent crime - that's what needs to be proven such as highlighting specific signal conversations that were evidence of planning the crime. Also, what is problematic about first aid kits? How is being in a "concealed" position problematic? | |
| ▲ | goatlover an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | ICE has behaved as violent criminals during Trump's 2nd term. Renee Good and Alex Pretty were murders. There have been other shootings ICE initiated. How many have died in ICE facilities under suspicious circumstances? | |
| ▲ | OutOfHere 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | > I think if you append "with the intention to commit a violent crime" to each item on the list, you'll see the issue. No, that doesn't fly, and the intent isn't clear. Even if there were intent, those three bullet points still are not an crime or valid charges. As a member of the jury, I would reject them 100%. Extending your pitiful logic just a few steps, people would be locked up for 30 years just for being born. > If you want to concede that it's fascist to want violent criminals prosectued No relation. Violent crime must of course be prosecuted, but it shouldn't have to depend on trumped up charges or weak accusations of intent. |
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