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| ▲ | ZeroGravitas 28 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | When the first wave of these datacenter stories came out, the utilities complained that they couldn't finance the work because the data centers refused to commit to paying for them over the longer term, leaving other ratepayers on the hook for the investment. This seems to further confirm that, though now the data centers are being portrayed as the victims in this. The sentence immediately following your quote: > securing grid-connected power now often requires developers to post substantial letters of credit, security deposits, or sign take-or-pay commitments to fund the generation built to serve their load. The question is, if they couldn't commit to paying the utility, how can they finance building their own independant grid equivalent? Did they find some other sucker to take on the risk? | |
| ▲ | parineum 13 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > The grid is a shared resource, used by enterprise and individuals. If some class of consumers demand an outsized share of that resource, they should pay an outsized share of its maintenance and development. I don't see that happening. That makes sense up until you realize that the data centers aren't just burning watts for fun. They're providing a service that is in extremely high demand to a very high amount of those other electricity customers. > It's as if trucking companies flooded the highways with so many trucks that people couldn't commute to work anymore. And those trucks are delivering products to the stores those commuters shop at. | |
| ▲ | cucumber3732842 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It's not "worse" per-say in that the buyer is crunching the numbers and deciding to go with on-prem generation for a lot of their jiggling electrons. But holy shit is something broken if that sort of approach is more economically effective (middle of nowhere Alaska not withstanding) than having the people who not only specialize in pipes for jiggling electrons, but have all sorts of preferable treatment from regulators and expertise in financing these sorts of things, just enlarge the size of the pipe to your door. Furthermore, the grid wants to be as big as it can for basically all the same inflow/outflow smoothy reasons a bank or an insurer wants to be. Something is very, very broken here if big, highly financed corporate interests are saying "no I'm not gonna get all my power from the grid" and the grid is saying "actually this is fine". They should be jumping at the chance to essentially have someone else at least partly subsidize their improvements. Everyone wants to whine about future volatility, will the data centers be around to pay for what they ordered, etc, etc. But the energy industry has a long, long, long track record of financing this risk away. Oil and related energy infra has been boom and busting for over a century. 30yr ago it would have been unfathomable that anyone without an extremely niche case would go where the energy is rather than just ordering up power from the grid. |
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| ▲ | Tade0 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | As an (eastern) European this is to me a greater concern than the Russian invasion in terms of availability of gas for the winter, considering how so many of those places run on gas turbines. Putin only has a certain amount of the resource on tap and sells it to someone eventually. Meanwhile data centers will eat up whatever you throw at them at any price, especially that in principle they don't need to be connected to the grid, so I imagine setting up their power supply must take months at the longest. | | |
| ▲ | rapsey 19 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The US has incredible gas reserves. Much more that can be expected with ships. |
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| ▲ | trhway an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Alternatively the crisis can be used to accelerate right development - quickly build up solar farms and transmission lines. Both of these can be done quickly if there were a political will. Yet, that will is missing. So, we're talking 40GW. Lets see what China does: https://energyandcleanair.org/china-energy-and-emissions-tre... "In the first two months of 2026, China added: 32.5 gigawatts (GW) of solar power capacity, down 18% from last year.
11 GW of wind power capacity, up 19% from last year.
20 GW of thermal power capacity, up 414% from last year.
1.2 GW of hydro power capacity, down 36% from last year.
1.2 GW of nuclear power capacity. " | | |
| ▲ | cloudie78 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Right off the top of my head, to power a 500MW Datacenter we need: 2.2-2.5 GWdc solar capacity which at 600W/panel amounts to 14-17sq mi plus additional 8-12GWh of storage to deal with nighttime, two-three days of cloud cover is not going to work with these numbers. Ballpark 5-7BN$ Nuclear otoh, 1GW continuous - gives constant power, badly managed first of a kind (or first one after decades) build will be at around 10-15BN and that’ll cover two 500MW data centres. There’s also the second/third degree order effects nuclear power stations have of creating jobs and industrial manufacturing demand. To run a nuclear power station you need to employ 1000 people (engineers plus support staff) - that’s a small town’s worth of adults. So you’ll need a town with a school, hospitals, stores - those need staffing as well. Unfortunately building nuclear is not something that’s currently a feasible path as it requires patient capital and long term vision and planning. So gas turbines it is at around ~1BN$ | |
| ▲ | clarionbell an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I like how balanced their energy mix is. It is very obvious that China is optimizing for capacity and availability. There isn't really a push for clean energy sources for political, or climate, reasons. They are deployed when it makes sense, backed up by robust coal and nuclear sources. In Europe, we approach energy generation as a political, or climate problem. We are building solar and wind power sources, not to make energy cheaper, or to make grid more resilient, but to fulfill an ideological goal. The results are, not great, to be honest. The energy prices have increased substantially, and are now driving our chemical industry bankrupt. Edit: I do not dispute the climate change. I am only highlighting impacts of current policy. | | |
| ▲ | trhway 30 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >I like how balanced their energy mix is. It is very obvious that China is optimizing for capacity and availability. There isn't really a push for clean energy sources for political, or climate, reasons. They are deployed when it makes sense, backed up by robust coal and nuclear sources. yes, they don't seem to fall for the "solar is unstable" trap and recognize new reality - the solar + wind smoothed by nuclear/gas is the new baseline | | |
| ▲ | boelboel 27 minutes ago | parent [-] | | You mean + coal, they don't have a meaningful amount of nuclear (just under 5% of electricity mix and 2% of energy). 50% of electricity is coal. |
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| ▲ | spacington 41 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Yeah and the richest person on the planet with full vertical integration (with partner) Elon musk and Tesla aka solar roof and power wall wants to sell DC in space and hasn't fixed any use of gas turbine for Colossus 1&2. Without enforcement it will happen continuously with snail pace | |
| ▲ | PunchyHamster an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | solar farms are worst kind of power source for constant loads like datacenters running AI training | | |
| ▲ | adornKey 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Why? Unlike loads involving a real physical process there is absolutely no need for AI-training to be constant. | | |
| ▲ | everfrustrated 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | You are correct in the sense that they can stop work in a way many generic server use cases can't (which is seen in lowering power supply reliability requirements as the article mentions), but running expensive servers at 50% utilization would dramatically affect the revenue generated per capital invested - IE you couldn't afford to buy the servers. | |
| ▲ | pu_pe 11 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | If you invest into chips that deprecate in value really fast, not utilizing them to their full capacity because of power constraints would be counter productive. |
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| ▲ | spacington 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Solar power still can take a certain amount of load from any other source and saving money and CO2 while doing so. And grid battery works and is cheap enough now. | |
| ▲ | alex_duf an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I'm hoping the kind of gas turbines being installed on these datacenters are capable of quickly responding to a load change, meaning the primary source of energy could be solar during the day and complement when there isn't enough energy. But I haven't looked into where these datacenter are being placed, I'm assuming that although solar is cheap now, the surface needed would make the purchase of nearby land probably not worth it. These new categories of datacenters are becoming very energy dense... | |
| ▲ | numpad0 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | but you can't trust especially hyperscalers with securely sealed HEUs in shipping containers | |
| ▲ | trhway an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | you're just incorrect. You probably missed 2 points : - battery storage - and in the article "However, AI labs and some hyperscalers have relaxed those requirements as there is now a lower uptime tolerance applied to both inference and training, not just training. Many of Meta’s self-built AI datacenters, for example, target just two nines of uptime and forgo backup generators entirely, as detailed in our Industrials Model." | |
| ▲ | actionfromafar an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's why we are getting clean, beautiful coal the likes of which nobodys ever seen before! |
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| ▲ | logicchains 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | By that logic almost any kind of economic development is an ecological disaster because it uses power. | | | |
| ▲ | rapsey 39 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | This is a defeatist EU attitude that leads to the worse outcomes. Expensive power and a failing economy. There is money now for a huge investment boom, which is what is happening in the US and China. With EU failing completely. | | |
| ▲ | logicchains 36 minutes ago | parent [-] | | >There is money now for a huge investment boom Not in western Europe, because they spent almost all their excess economic output over the past few decades on welfare/transfer payments. | | |
| ▲ | rapsey 34 minutes ago | parent [-] | | That was my point. We in the EU are destroying ourselves. The US is racing ahead and investing in all kinds of power generation technologies. | | |
| ▲ | everfrustrated 4 minutes ago | parent [-] | | The difference is Europeans expect government to "fix" things. Americans expect companies to do that. Eg, the disastrous energy policies all across Europe which have made price of energy insanely high with no hope of ever coming down (these high prices are all locked in with long term contracts). America just builds lots of new power. Because of fewer market distorting policies the new power comes online at cheaper marginal rates so the price doesn't go up. And now Texas has some of the greener and cheapest energy in the West. |
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| ▲ | marcyb5st an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | And especially terrible for the communities that have to live with gas turbines or other local power generators as neighbors. Noise and air pollution constantly [1]. But fuck them, they are poor people so we don't care about them /s . Additionally, people against data centers are accused of being paid by China [2] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2026/feb/13/elon-mus...
[2] https://fortune.com/2026/06/10/kevin-oleary-trump-administra... | | |
| ▲ | everfrustrated 3 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | It wasn't long ago that every city had a coal power station right in the center of it. Things aren't nearly as bad as you suggest. | |
| ▲ | trhway an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | you can't put an ADU, yet, you can put in 200MW generating capacity. |
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