It's not "worse" per-say in that the buyer is crunching the numbers and deciding to go with on-prem generation for a lot of their jiggling electrons.

But holy shit is something broken if that sort of approach is more economically effective (middle of nowhere Alaska not withstanding) than having the people who not only specialize in pipes for jiggling electrons, but have all sorts of preferable treatment from regulators and expertise in financing these sorts of things, just enlarge the size of the pipe to your door.

Furthermore, the grid wants to be as big as it can for basically all the same inflow/outflow smoothy reasons a bank or an insurer wants to be. Something is very, very broken here if big, highly financed corporate interests are saying "no I'm not gonna get all my power from the grid" and the grid is saying "actually this is fine". They should be jumping at the chance to essentially have someone else at least partly subsidize their improvements.

Everyone wants to whine about future volatility, will the data centers be around to pay for what they ordered, etc, etc. But the energy industry has a long, long, long track record of financing this risk away. Oil and related energy infra has been boom and busting for over a century.

30yr ago it would have been unfathomable that anyone without an extremely niche case would go where the energy is rather than just ordering up power from the grid.

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psd1 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

Not sure how you calibrate your "niche" scale, but foundries and aluminium smelting plants have commonly been sited near generators in Britain. I suppose that transmission losses matter at the GW scale; and also that a national grid is a complex system, with phase slump being a cause of failure even with sufficient generation capacity.

Every DC I've visited - probably ten - has on-site generators, for redundancy. To a certain type of mind, that's capital going to waste. I can imagine a bean-counter desire to sweat that plant.

I agree that today's economics is very broken, but co-siting generation and consumption is probably not a symptom.

Aside: Language is whatever people use, but, "per se" is Latin for "in itself". "Per-say" is an eggcorn.

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cucumber3732842 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

>, but foundries and aluminium smelting plants have commonly been sited near generators in Britain.

IDK about Britain, especially historically when you would have been building aluminum smelters. It's not normal in the US more or less since the advent of the grid. I'm sure people will be along shortly to construe exceptions or special cases where the fossil fuels were extra cheap as the norm or heat was what they also needed and it was cheaper to capture that locally and make some electricity too.

>Every DC I've visited - probably ten - has on-site generators, for redundancy. To a certain type of mind, that's capital going to waste. I can imagine a bean-counter desire to sweat that plant.

But they don't use those for any semblance of "normal" load. Those are strictly for redundancy not "ah it's 3pm, power's getting expensive better fire up the genset for 4hr". At least that's normally how it is. It's not normal for it to be possible to out compete the utility even after fixed costs are amortized in. Bigger generation is more efficient, if you're buying fossil fuels then buying them in bulk is more efficient. Etc. etc. It should be cheaper to have the people who benefit from all that string you a wire.

	▲	leonidasrup 8 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		In most places aluminum smelters have been located near power plants, because aluminum smelters have large electricity demand and transporting large amounts of electricity over large distances is expensive (high capacity power lines are expensive). Electricity costs are between 40% - 50% of costs of the finished aluminum. Also, reliability. "Due to the nature of the process, power outages have the potential to cause damage to production cells as the molten liquids could solidify in absence of adequate current. For this reason, production facilities need to be near secure and reliable sources of energy." https://arcticecon.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/aluminium-smelti...