Remix.run Logo
re-framer an hour ago

What is it that makes gas power plants so much more attractive than renewable energy? From what I heard, it's a bit easier to build them very fast and they reliably produce energy on demand (as long as gas is available of course). But I imaging one could replicate this using solar/wind and storage units.

I could imagine that the challenge is that that having enough solar panels for a few gigawatts of consumption is hard to do on-site, so one needs to connect the data center to the grid, which, in turn, complicates matters and transformators are scarce right now.

Is this about right? I do hope that we find a way to do this more sustainably. AI doesn't solve climate change in the next few years, so clean energy isn't irrelevant.

dcrazy an hour ago | parent | next [-]

My understanding is that you can turn gas plants on and off very quickly, and they can run at any time of day. That makes them excellent suppliers for peak demand. For much of the year, the evening peak occurs when the sun is not shining and the winds have died down, so renewables are not viable.

re-framer 44 minutes ago | parent [-]

Renewables can be combined with storage technologies such as batteries, so the syllogism "no generation during Dunkelflaute, but need reliablye generation -> renewables not viable" is too simple. My question is about whether renewables with storage technologies are a viable replacement for the gas power plants.

apeescape 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I think you overestimate the currently available storage technologies. Batteries are very limited in capacity and super expensive in large scale. Hydrogen or synthetic methane might work, but those are gases, if you were opposed to them.

32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
dcrazy 24 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

There are many facets of “viability”: technical, economic, political. There is obviously some reason why new gas plants are being built instead of renewables with storage.

re-framer 11 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yes, and I'm still interested in better understanding that reason. My previous response just noted that the explanation you gave seemed overly simplistic to me in that it did not address that renewable energy can be stored, making it less volatile.

legulere 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You can build gas power plants on site at your data center and don’t have to wait for the grid to be upgraded. In the long run gas will be replaced by cheaper renewables

dipierro an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

As far as I understand, building a large solar farm is still considerably _faster_ than gas turbine plant.

throe9393i44i an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

It is hard to operate renewables 24/7. At night and winter, you need a big array of generators and LED lights to shine on solars. Very inefficient.

Or for every solar you need a generator as a backup!

re-framer an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I asked whether solar/wind in combination with storage technologies, including but not limited to batteries, was able to reliably power a data center.

throe9393i44i 42 minutes ago | parent [-]

Really, no! You were going to dump peak solar/wimd energy into grid, and play stupid why "backward" public utilities need gas to do stabilisation!

mejutoco an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Batteries