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alchemist1e9 a day ago

EDIT: comment was under incorrect parent. my error. moved it to correct location.

EDIT2: Actually it’s more interesting. The commenters seem have changed their wording away from what I was criticizing.

Original observation: Try to purge envy from your heart. It’s a poison.

There was originally a lot of dark envy in this thread but interestingly it’s been revised out to be more subtle.

MyHonestOpinon a day ago | parent | next [-]

I don't feel the parent post is about bad envy. There is also good envy, when you feel happy for someone's blessings. But you also would like to have it for yourself.

trollbridge 7 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Or you can just be excited that $400k is getting dumped into Zig, and without onerous strings attached. That's an unmitigated good thing.

I don't feel a need to know too much about the particulars of mitchellh's life or what else he spends his money on.

alchemist1e9 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Nah this is definitely bad type of envy you can look at the full discussion and additional comments from the user.

sevenzero a day ago | parent | prev [-]

In a working society, nobody should be able to throw away life changing money. Being rich is poisonous to society. Most of us suffer due to people hoarding money and humanity needs to overcome the concept of money generally.

tpmoney a day ago | parent | next [-]

“Life changing” money is relative. We take some family friends and their kids on a vacation every two years. Sometimes the bill is split, sometimes we cover most or all of the cost. We’re not rich, we just have extra money they don’t because of different life circumstances. But as a result we can help give them and their kids experiences they never would have had. Likewise some friends who are better off than we are were able to take us on a trip we could not have afforded on our own. Again they’re not rich, just a different set of life circumstances.

Now you might argue that “vacations” aren’t “life changing”, but I would certainly argue that if you never would have had the experience or seen the place then they absolutely can be. But even if not, I refer you back to the original thesis which is that “life changing” is relative. Because the sums of money we’re talking about would have been “pay my rent for a year”, “buy a reliable (used) car”, “reduce my student loan balance by nearly a third” sort of money. And those I think could all be reasonably said to be life changing sorts of things.

Finally I would suggest that if you are “throwing away” this sort of money on actually changing someone’s life, then you are by definition not “hoarding money” and can hardly be said to be poisoning society with your relative wealth.

jazzyjackson a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Hoarding money is not economically prudent in a system designed with mild inflation. Money loses value sitting still, to grow wealth there has to be some action with a positive return. The trouble will billionaires is the oligopolizing of power and influence, not that they're sitting on gold that could otherwise be yours...

I've spent a lot of time in communities trying to grow past 'money' and decided that the usual replacement is allegiance to some other ideology that aligns everyone's incentives to a common cause or cult. I'd rather have diverse incentives with a common language of cash.

sevenzero a day ago | parent | next [-]

If we cant grow past money as a species we are pretty much doomed. I'd rather have allegiance or community based incentives over monetary gain, given that most people on earth can't really afford life anymore and rack up debt so rich people can get richer.

alchemist1e9 a day ago | parent [-]

Capitalism is the single greatest force for improvement in the human condition. Money is the foundation of capitalism.

If you went to school and believe what you write then you went to terrible schools.

imtringued 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

The problem is that the same people who say this also argue in favor of optimal extinction.

There is clearly something broken about the neoclassical market economy where it is optimal to not have children and to collapse the ecosystem with climate change (the economist who got a riksbank price for his climate change work suggested that 4°C warming is economically optimal).

sevenzero a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Capitalism also marked the end of humanity and is the single greatest force driving human extinction. But yall money driven brains cant comprehend that :)

alchemist1e9 a day ago | parent | next [-]

And how is it driving human extinction? It’s lifted humans out of endless poverty and bringing a coming age of abundance, what world are you living in?

sevenzero 20 hours ago | parent [-]

It's causing unhindered exploitation of resources and corruption. We are going to burn the very last tree on earth for chump change.

throwitaway222 a day ago | parent | prev [-]

I guess my question to people that dislike capitalism, is - what do you want to see replace it? Capitalism with changes, Communism?

I don't think Humans can ever do anything other than capitalism because at the end of the day, a farmer making food and delivering it is just going to STOP working when he finds out a daycare owner has made $15 in 3 years without actually taking care of kids. And everyone just bubble wraps the explanation - and then they disallow anger. The farmer then writes up a proposal for starting a daycare and the food stops flowing. Everyone dies in communism.

sevenzero a day ago | parent [-]

>Everyone dies in communism.

Everyone dies in capitalism as well though. Everyone dies generally at some point in life.

Reality is, currently most of us are wage slaves and I'd love to work a little less and still be able to afford life. An alternative to capitalism would be socialism and killing corrupt people off.

jazzyjackson a day ago | parent [-]

> killing corrupt people off

Cool cool that doesn’t sound tyrannical at all

sevenzero 20 hours ago | parent [-]

I never claimed I was against tyranny. Tyranny thats emitted as rightful punishment from the masses is fine in my opinion. Single people having power emitting tyranny is a whole different topic. Its about outweighed consensus for me.

georgemcbay a day ago | parent | prev [-]

> Capitalism is the single greatest force for improvement in the human condition.

Capitalism has done a lot of good in the world, and it has also done a lot of bad.

The problem isn't that capitalism exists, it is that far too many people treat it as a religion rather than a tool.

georgemcbay a day ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> The trouble will billionaires is the oligopolizing of power and influence, not that they're sitting on gold that could otherwise be yours...

There are just purely economic problems caused by wealth inequality too because while money numbers can just keep going up infinitely, there are only so many real assets (and services like education and healthcare) that can be bought with those money numbers, so the higher the wealth of the top relative to everyone else, the easier they price everyone else out of the economy, which we are very much seeing the effects of over the last few years as things get increasingly K-shaped and the middle class vanishes.

All of this said, the last time and place I'm going to be snarky or critical of any one person's wealth is when they are voluntarily redistributing it to improve things for the common good.

imtringued 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Except this inflation is not a direct fee charged to every holder of money. Inflation primarily affects people purchasing consumer goods.

If anything, inflation is the hoarding.

Rich people indirectly hold money by owning shares in companies that hold the money on their behalf. If the money is paid out via stock buy backs, the money is in the hand of the investor. Said money is reinvested into companies, those companies may temporarily pay out salaries, but eventually the money returns back to the investor leading to a dynamic form of hoarding. They started with less money but ended up with more money. The only way dishoarding can happen is if the money is spent on consumption.

Let me repeat:

If you understand the above, then inflation doesn't impact the rich who don't consume anything. If anything the opposite is true. The government/central bank throws just enough money into the system to prevent the economy from collapsing from the hoarding since money is needed as a tool or utility the same way housing is needed. As far as we know the preferred method of giving out that money to cause inflation has never been helicopter money, it's been quantitative easing which historically benefits the capital markets more or basically made the government take on more public debt.

Then there is the fact that any system where income is proportional to ownership basically negates the impact of inflation for said income. If you earn 3% yield at 3% inflation you might say that this nets out to 0%, but it doesn't. In nominal terms that is still a net inflow of money. You might counter that multi billionaires only turn into trillionaires on paper from inflation but they are still just multi billionaires. The point is that despite this real yield of 0%, the total share of money held by said multi billionaires can still go up and increase inequality even if in real terms their actual wealth did not change simply because consumers pay inflation and the billionaires don't.

If you ever bothered doing even a little bit of research the standard solution to "growing past money" is either something like a demurrage currency or the banking version called oeconomia augustana by dieter suhr (the bank charges a liquidity fee on both positive and negative balances to encourage getting to 0 residual balances, the liquidity fee is automatically determined by competition between banks, it is essentially a private implementation of Keynes' bancor proposal).

nkrisc a day ago | parent | prev [-]

Wicked people will be wicked with or without money.

gr8painz a day ago | parent [-]

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