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GJim 6 hours ago

Stupidly dangerous and (in my country) illegal.

Please retract your comment and don't encourage such stupidity.

EDIT: Since this is being misinterpreted... Earplugs that deaden sound are fine and encouraged on a motorbike, playing music in your ears is what masks other sound and is both stupid and illegal.

infecto 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Really depends on how they are being worn. If they are on without any sound being played its fine. Ear plugs are highly encouraged while riding a motorcycle and after a decade plus of riding I have never thought ear plugs along with a headset prevented me from hearing whats going on around me.

Maybe it is your own misinterpretation as the parent never said they were playing music on them. You might not realize just how loud the wind noise is on a bike, you are not exactly hearing your surroundings music or not. Most if not all of your awareness on a motorcycle is coming from your eyes not ears, so hard to really say its stupid.

esperent 4 hours ago | parent [-]

There's just a tiny step from wearing noise canceling earphones with no music playing, to pressing a button and blaring Bat out of Hell while you speed down the mountainside.

In any case, it's irrelevant - as far as I know, wearing headphones or earphones while driving a motorcycle is illegal whether or not you happen to be playing music in them, because how would anyone else know? If you get in an accident and get charged with distracted driving, that's on you. If you want earplugs, just wear them. They're much cheaper and more effective than sound cancelling headphones if you genuinely just want to block noise.

infecto 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Not sure what your trying to a argue but it simply depends on the local laws but from a safety perspective I cannot think of many opportunities the sound would save you as it’s already loud enough from wind noise alone. I ride with a comm system that I play media over and trying to be reflective of my past and I don’t see it. Not really advocating one way or the other like yourself, I don’t have that strong of a feeling about that law but from purely a safety aspect I don’t fully agree with the opinion. If you don’t want to wear ear protection just don’t wear it. It’s your ears.

throw0101c 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> I ride with a comm system that I play media over and trying to be reflective of my past and I don’t see it.

One risk is your focus going from what's on the road to what's coming into your ears.

This may have some useful mental aspects if you're doing a long-distance drudgery ride down Route 66 with nothing much happening in between pitstops, but it's another thing on I-5 or I-95 with all sorts of chaotic lane changes going on.

infecto 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Visual awareness is much more important for safety than sound especially once your at speed. Distracted driving is completely different and can happen anywhere. We should be arguing that cars should not have any speakers if that’s the case.

patcon 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> I cannot think of many opportunities the sound would save you as it’s already loud enough from wind noise alone

I am a bit stunned reading this.. Is this a common perspective of motorcyclists?

infecto 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

What is the stunning part? It’s not so much a perspective but pretty common safety advice, visual awareness is much more important than sound while operating a motorcycle. I suspect the gap is from folks who have only driven a car so there can be a sense of shock.

Like all things it does depend on where you ride and the general driving culture. In America that’s how I ride but in Vietnam it’s very different. Road rules are not as often followed and honking is common to make yourself known, usually while there I wear lower db reduction ear protection.

I am also not saying that there is zero opportunity to hear a horn but already on a motorcycle you have to have so much more awareness that I don’t find that sounds are all that helpful. It absolutely applies to driving a car too, after driving a motorcycle for a while I am as shocked as you just how unaware drivers are of their surroundings.

Keep in mind at around 35mph you can easily hit 85-90db from the wind. I do think ear protection actually helps identifying sounds but I still argue the hearing part is not that helpful.

I am not trying to say you have to follow my methods but folks calling for criminal punishment and shaming are a bit too far as the safety benefit from hearing is quite minimal depending on the driving culture.

throw0101c 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> I am a bit stunned reading this.. Is this a common perspective of motorcyclists?

No.

For example, every beginner-advice thread in /r/motorcycle has a highly-upvoted comment(s) recommending ear protection, including many folks stating they wish they had started using it earlier.

And even if it is conceded that sound may not save you from other vehicles, ear pro(tection) reduces the health risk of hearing loss that would effect other aspects of your life.

Zak an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

At highway speeds, the wind is loud. The engine is often loud even with a factory exhaust. The only audible signal that's likely to matter is a car horn, and those are loud enough to hear over music at reasonable volume.

Cars are quieter, and hearing other vehicles is more likely. If anyone shouldn't listen to music, it's car drivers, not motorcyclists.

SoftTalker 15 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It's been decades since I've ridden motorcyles but as I recall the helmet usually had foam padding over the ears and that was adequate for wind and noise reduction.

yonaguska 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Since the advent of EVs, its not a safety issue imo. When Tesla's first came out, and the first adopters were all people that wanted to drive FAST, I was often surprised by them, especially since I always rode slightly faster than traffic as a safety mitigation technique. I quickly learned to use my eyes more.

My eyes are my ears and you cannot rely on sound to know who or what might be coming up from behind you. Mirrors and head on a swivel are way more important.

SenHeng an hour ago | parent [-]

It’s been a thing since the Prius allowed driving with the engine off with parents complaining that the Prius is a silent killer of kids because they couldn’t hear them coming.

t-3 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Deaf people manage to get licenses with no problem. My hearing was never tested to get my license, unlike my eyesight.

timcobb 5 hours ago | parent [-]

Deaf people have a lifetime of training (hopefully) and experience dealing with things like this in ways the are appropriate for their situation

culturestate 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Deaf people have a lifetime of training (hopefully) and experience

Not every deaf person is born that way, mate.

4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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stasomatic 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is using headphones on a bike with music on or not somehow different from driving in a Lexus with music on or not?

Enginerrrd 10 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Yeah, it’s definitely higher risk.

When riding a motorcycle, you’ll encounter people that don’t see you almost every trip. The same is not true in a car.

Riding a bike is just a 100% engagement thing with higher risks and lower margins for error, for all kinds of reasons. And it’s not just traffic, minor pavement imperfections become relevant, the necessary skill floor is also higher. It just demands more attention, straight up.

In a car, you shouldn’t, and it’s not without risk, but you CAN occasionally get away with minor distractions: adjusting the radio, seat, etc. That just doesn’t work on a bike as well. I’m failing to properly articulate the why, but it really is fundamentally different in some ways. I’ve spent many years doing both, and the bike just demands more of your attention resources, independent of your vulnerability in the event of an accident.

9dev 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Noise cancellation headphones that will block out loud things or ambulances approaching you, sitting exposed on a motor strapped to two wheels at a high speed? Yes. That is different from driving in a Lexus.

stasomatic 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I drive a car and ride a bicycle and an e-bike in Miami. The ANC isn’t that magical, I hear plenty of out of the algorithm noises (ambulances, etc). Head on a swivel and look straight.

mylifeandtimes 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

well, one comes with a pretty strong safety cage, so there is that difference.

MagicMoonlight 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

somehnguy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I wear earplugs and play music via Cardo while riding nearly every single day. It's fine.

Let's be realistic - noise cancelling isn't a perfect technology. I rode with my AirPods for a short period of time and could still hear everything I needed to. The only reason I switched is because they're uncomfortable in a helmet.

Broken_Hippo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My earbuds have a setting to allow for outside noises. Wearing them while walking, I often hear cars and other people well before I see them. Even with louder music, I still hear them. I can hold a conversation with people without taking them out. I don't wear them without music, though, because my own breathing is also louder and irritating.

If I have the noise cancelling turned on, it would be downright unsafe.

While it is likely illegal in many places, it isn't everywhere and the safety risk depends on what sort of equipment you have.

psp99 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is not illegal in every country. Further, wind noise and exhaust are too loud to hear anything anyway, so having music on and navigation is a bonus.

esperent 4 hours ago | parent [-]

That's completely untrue, speaking as someone who drives a motorcycle every day, at least if you're not driving some horrible (to everyone around you) 500cc beast, you can hear things just fine. Especially horns, trucks, busses etc.

infecto 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Speaking as someone who has raced, commuted and has run multiple iron butts. Only really true at low speeds and if you are not wearing ear protection (which is a choice). Once earpro is in and you are going a decent speed there is really not much to be heard. Have never found hearing to save me from situations. If someone is honking that I am in danger I am probably already in it.

Absolutely your choice not to wear hearing protection though. Eventually you will get naturally immune to it.

esperent 30 minutes ago | parent [-]

> If someone is honking that I am in danger I am probably already in it.

This is an incredibly dumb and dangerous attitude to hold and you need to rethink things if you've become so overconfident in your driving because you've raced or done "iron butts", whatever those are. Driving on real roads isn't like racing and you need to separate your attitudes and driving styles in each situation before your arrogance causes an accident. Remember that it's not just your life on the line but the other innocent people around you too.

nehal3m 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You’re failing the shibboleths though. You don’t drive a motorcycle, you ride one. A 500cc bike is low mid range, not a beast. You can’t hear rolling or engine noise of cars, trucks or busses over 50kph if you’re wearing a helmet.

Further, sound deadened cars with the stereo on an appreciable level also aren’t conducive to perceiving what’s around you.

Speaking as someone who commuted on 600 twins and 300 singles for years, if you’re wearing hearing protection and listening to some tunes and navigation hints you’re fine. Just ride defensively like you should, and make sure you’re not over doing it on the volume.

carlosjobim 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Have you driven a 500cc? Modern supersport and adventure bikes have very quiet exhausts. Any loud exhaust you hear on your commute is usually somebody who put an aftermarket muffler on their 125cc bike.

4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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nedt 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

If that's illegal than cars with closed windows would be illegal too. Even more so if they have the radio on. As a cyclist I keep having issues with car drivers not hearing anything happening outside of their vehicle (not a bell, not yelling, not a bicycle hooter). That's like wearing headphones or earplugs and still is considered normal. I'd love if everyone would be required to drive a cabrio.

Gareth321 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Agreed. The people who complain about earphones while riding/driving/cycling are older and grew up in an era where they had advertisements on television warning people not to do that. The actual risk is fairly minimal. As you point out: modern cars are designed to be super quiet. Just use some common sense.

otherme123 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Cars are much more safe in a crash (surrounded with a steel frame, airbags, safety belt...) and also safer while driving (better mirrors, bigger and easier to see).

I use the bike, and I know for a fact that almost any crash with a car means me in a coffin. I need all my senses at 100%, can't afford the luxury of listening to music or wear shorts for example.

nedt 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Cars are only safer in a crash if you are inside the car. They are a big problem for anyone they crash into. That's why it's so very important that you see and hear everything happening around you. Why should the once with more mass and speed have the luxury of listening to music?

sda2 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

hence the term ‘cager’ - once you experience the phenomena from a bicycle or motorcycle it becomes obvious.

4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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Der_Einzige 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Why stop people from winning Darwin awards?

A lot of motorcyclists are the scum of society in other ways. Probably higher levels of domestic violence than the police.

You want to wear airpods while on the motorcycle? If this is an unironic idea you are having, indulge!

2 hours ago | parent | next [-]
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GJim an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> A lot of motorcyclists are the scum of society in other ways.

Speaking as a hairy-arsed biker, this comment makes me feel proud :-)

carlosjobim 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

In your opinion, how hard should somebody beat their wife to deserve an extremely painful death or being mutilated for a lifetime?

If this is what you fancy, your local emergency services will probably welcome you to come along with them for a day, so that you can laugh and jeer at people while they are dying or dead.