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Norway greenlights first full-scale ship tunnel(eandt.theiet.org)
73 points by geox 5 hours ago | 38 comments
mkl 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Having no map is weird. Wikipedia has one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stad_Ship_Tunnel

Someone 24 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

FTA: Norway will start building the first full-size ship tunnel in the world

And “Full-size” means what? Sea-faring?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canal_tunnel lists several tunnels that ships can pass through, and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rove_Tunnel, to me, seems to have supported decently sized ships.

swiftcoder 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's a pretty metal approach to navigation. Despite being missing from the AI rendering, I really hope they are going to put big breakwaters around the tunnel entrances - the last thing you want is a storm swell entering your tunnel...

dgellow an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Only 4 years of work to be ready? That sounds pretty optimistic (crying in German)

bborud 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Ask a Norwegian to dig a tunnel and they will turn into a gopher on meth. We are the undisputed champions of tunnels in terms of tunnel density. Show us a piece of rock and we'll put a big hole in it.

However.

Ask a Norwegian to fix a piece of road and you will be staring at a hole in the ground for 4 years while people will take turns leaning on a shovel in that hole while surrounded by at least 4 different categories of supervisor or inspector.

But to inject some realism: if they say 4 years they can probably do it in 5. And it'll take another year or so to fix fuck-ups that in retrospect will look stupid and thoughtless, but which are realistically unavoidable. We'll whine about it. A lot. And each week the whole country will be experts on something new. Like evil-sounding compounds for stopping water ingress or how to insulate wires. And then suddenly it starts working.

MomsAVoxell 4 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

So just ask Norwegians to dig tunnels around the broken road, duh.

PaulDavisThe1st 13 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

> Ask a Norwegian to dig a tunnel and they will turn into a gopher on meth. We are the undisputed champions of tunnels in terms of tunnel density. Show us a piece of rock and we'll put a big hole in it.

You're saying the the general sense from the old germanic language cultures that dwarves and their ilk were somehow Scandanavian is rooted is a well-dug reality?

Semaphor an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Reading the Wikipedia page (including the originally projected end date of 2026), it sounds a bit worse. Probably not Germany bad, but I wouldn't bet on the 4 years either.

ews an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

not 40 years? seriously ??? (cries in Californian)

bigpeopleareold 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The first time I heard about this was last week when I was listening to the economic issues that the article mentions on NRK "political quarter" (NRK is the national broadcaster) with the word "waste" being thrown around a lot. This article from VG debates the cost and puts it into contrast what could have been done instead: https://www.vg.no/nyheter/i/q6k3ko/skipstunnelen-er-historis... ... it's been contentious as I understand.

notfried 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

When an architecture company seemingly uses AI to render mockups, they really need to ensure consistency and accuracy. It's not that difficult nowadays. It was quite confusing trying to understand the differences in design between pictures and to compute why the tunnel seems so short compared to the mountain, until I realized it must have been laziness; not laziness because they are using AI, but laziness to do their job right.

bborud 33 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Of course, the tunnel will be in non-euclidian space. So it is shorter on the inside than on the outside :-)

duskdozer 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I can't see TFA due to cloudflare, but there is a unique image style used in a lot of architectural mockups of proposed buildings and things that also looks very strange and uncanny. I can't find any examples of it online right now unfortunately, but could that be what they're doing?

StevenWaterman 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'd be very surprised if this was AI, it's too bad-looking. The lighting is all wrong, there's noticeable repeating rock textures

eesmith 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And they've been around for years.

You can see a copy of that last image (3rd in the gallery) from 2017 at https://web.archive.org/web/20170707052808/https://www.ship-... and at https://newatlas.com/stad-ship-tunnel-interview-terje-andrea... .

A copy of the first image in the gallery is at https://dozr.com/blog/stad-ship-tunnel dated 2021.

Edit: ahhh, 2017 and 2021 were the previous two big announcements about the tunnel. See my notes at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48597546 .

pixl97 an hour ago | parent [-]

Heh, it's kind of funny to see how many things are called AI that aren't AI, remember that when we see discussions in HN saying articles are AI or replies are AI.

It's memeable in many cases.

P1 "AI pictures are bad"

P2 "But AI was trained on human pictures"

[Human picture]

bondarchuk 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Yeah it looks more like photocollage creatively photoshopped. Perspective is very weird in picture 3 too, very cubist.

wongarsu 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I suspect quickly slapped together 3d renders photoshopped into actual landscape images. With very limited attention to detail when it comes to matching perspective or lighting between render and photo, or when it comes to blending them together

There are more images like [1] that are just the cheap 3d renders, with less of the photoshop butchery

https://newatlas-brightspot.s3.amazonaws.com/archive/snohett...

tokai 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I don't see anything in those visualizations that makes me think AI. Its completely run-of-the-mill architect visualizations that have always been atrocious.

thrance 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> not laziness because they are using AI, but laziness to do their job right.

It correlates often enough.

nairboon 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That's kind of cool. Norway also has roundabouts in tunnels. I guess they like tunnels.

varjag 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Most of the Norway's Western coast (basically the extent of the country) is mountainous so building infrastructure there inevitably involves blasting the rock. At the same time the country is huge, bigger than Germany or the UK. So naturally a lot of tunnels.

This one a bit special: most of the boat traffic through it are meant to be ferries so it is to be commissioned and managed by the National Road Authority. At the same time it's quite unique if only due to enormous cross-section and can't share many usual national design solutions for the tunnels. For instance my company was asked a quotation for a PA system for it and it's really a challenge. So it's no wonder that it's delayed so much: it requires a lot of bespoke solutions.

blackoil 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Need them for trolls to move around.

Broken_Hippo an hour ago | parent [-]

Shhh!

cassepipe an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The Dutch really like building dikes

cassepipe an hour ago | parent [-]

The Japanese seem to dig earthquake-resistant buildings a lot

ant6n 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I bet the cost-benefit is actually negative. But it is kind of cool, I guess.

dgellow 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Depends on the time frame, no? Such a tunnel will exist for a long time (I assume)

Jensson 12 minutes ago | parent [-]

Yeah, governments invest on a different timescale than corporations. An investment like this typically enables future investments by other actors and adds up to a lot more than what you see currently.

For example a train station doesn't just serve the current people who live there, but the new town and all the new buildings that will be built around it as well. Infrastructure improves land value often by many orders of magnitude more than it costs to build.

eesmith 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Previous HN postings which had comments are:

"A plan to build a ship tunnel" (2017), at http://newatlas.com/stad-ship-tunnel-interview-terje-andreas... with 29 comments at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13920841

"First ship tunnel to be built under Norwegian mountains" (2021), at https://edition.cnn.com/travel/article/norway-ship-tunnel/in... with 25 comments at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26540805

See also gCaptain at https://gcaptain.com/worlds-first-ship-tunnel-to-bypass-dang... from 2017 and https://gcaptain.com/norway-gives-green-light-for-worlds-fir... from 2021.

philipwhiuk 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I'm not hugely sure I see the point - it doesn't link to anywhere major. Is Måløy to Åheim a major route?

abujazar 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

It's the main lane where all coastal traffic passes, and one of the most dangerous and weather sensitive regions on the lane. Larger ships sail farther out when weather conditions don't allow for sailing the coast, but a lot of traffic including fishing vessels carrying fresh fish simply have to wait. So it's not as meaningless as geography makes it look.

rob74 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Not this specific route, but it would be very useful for the Hurtigruten ships that serve the entire Norwegian coast (mentioned in the Wikipedia article, actually the ship shown in the tunnel cross-section has the Hurtigruten livery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stad_Ship_Tunnel).

em-bee 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

as i understand it, the problem is not getting to Åheim, but sailing along the coast, where, in this part, the conditions are frequently bad. the tunnel is not a shortcut to Åheim but a detour passing Åheim to avoid the coastal area and instead sail through the fjords.

tuwtuwtuwtuw 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

From Wikipedia:

> The Stad Ship Tunnel (Norwegian: Stad skipstunnel) is a planned canal and tunnel to bypass the Stad peninsula in Stad Municipality in Vestland county, Norway. The peninsula is one of the most exposed areas on the coast, without any outlying islands to protect it from the weather. The section has traditionally been one of the most dangerous along the coast of Norway.

> The surrounding waters, known as the Stadhavet Sea, is the most windswept part of the nation's coastline and is stormy around 100 days of the year, leading to ships often waiting days to pass through.[6][7] Currents, created by the area marking the meeting point of the North Sea and the Norwegian Sea further complicate navigation: Since World War Two ended, 33 deaths have occurred in maritime accidents within the Stadhavet Sea.[5] The official Visit Norway website has claimed Vikings would drag their boats over the peninsula to avoid crossing the dangerous patch of sea.

VorpalWay an hour ago | parent [-]

"Stadhavet Sea", since havet means "the sea" (in both Swedish and (as far as I know) Norwegian), that is a terrible phrasing on English Wikipedia. It should be either just "Stadhavet" or "the Stad sea".

Though, to be fair, there are a lot of places with silly names like that. From what I have heard "Sahara Desert" translates to "Desert desert" for example. I seem to remember there is even a place that translates as "hill hill hill" somewhere in UK, using three different languages.

vidarh an hour ago | parent | next [-]

> I seem to remember there is even a place that translates as "hill hill hill" somewhere in UK, using three different languages.

You might be thinking of Torpenhow. It's not clear the etymology actually supports the "hill hill hill" (I thought it did). But there are enough silly names like that for a Wikipedia list:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tautological_place_nam...

Quite a few of the English ones are incidentally down to either Norse or Germanic influence. E.g. most island names ending in "-ey" (compare -øy) that has gotten "island" added, like Canvey island.

borosuxks 21 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

Norway had Nesoddtangen, which is three versions of the english point or head (nes, odde, tange) put together