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rayiner 3 hours ago

> And to the people criticizing, this is cheating. To them, a billion dollars enterprise is not possible without the exploitation of employees, customers, or at least the environment.

Well that’s wrong. Exploitive businesses do exist. Rent seeking and arbitrage does exist. But the ire today isn’t directed to Wall Street or private equity. It’s being directed to people who built real companies. It’s not inherently exploitive to sell a customer a valuable product or employ someone to build that product.

In the 1990s, it took weeks to order something by mail. Amazon can now deliver me stuff the same day of the next morning. That’s amazing, considering that it’s all done with trucks, warehouses, and other things that already existed in the 1990s. Whoever made that happen when USPS couldn’t do it deserves to be a billionaire.

boelboel 20 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Amazon itself used the extremely advantageous rates of USPS for book delivery in the 90s/early 2000s to be able to grow. Combined with the lack of sales tax it could undercut basically any bookstore in sale-tax free states. Part of the reason why USPS couldn't improve itself was because of a law in 2006 which forced them to prefund retiree health benefits for decades into the future making them unable to spend those billions a year into modernisation right when it needed it the most (and private companies didn't face this pressure). Both the sale tax benefit and the USPS disadvantages are reversed now but the momentum amazon got and the slowdown USPS had can't be reversed.

The company also pushed for all sort of regulatory changes to punish competitors (e.g. minimum wage to harm Walmart) while it had labour violations which barely got fined. This isn't to say that I think Amazon didn't provide value at any point in time, with its recommendation algorithm and review system it actually abuses the added value the platform delivered in the past to benefit its own basic products, but I believe there would've always been an Amazon who would've used similar regulatory plays to get ahead. That's why it's kind of difficult for me to say how many of Bezos his billions were 'fairly' earned.

Furthermore I don't believe it's impossible for someone to truly earn a billion, the financial sector is one that has some of the best examples (e.g. Jim Simons) it's just difficult to find a 'close to purely fair' billionaire.

chadgpt3 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

But there are many online stores, and Amazon is one of the worst? On line shopping was an innovation but Amazon, in particular, was just a cash grab from all the others.

WarmWash 2 hours ago | parent [-]

If you pay attention to how people spend their money, and not what they say (i.e. actions speak louder than words)

People really love billionaire owned businesses.

We can look at Walmart, which eviscerated mom&pop stores all over rural America, and you'd be hard pressed to find much love of Walmart in those places, but alas, people gave their money to Walmart instead of Jone's Town General.

rayiner 29 minutes ago | parent [-]

I saw a Harvard-Harris poll a couple of years ago where Amazon had the highest favorability ratings of institutions/organizations polled, basically tied with the U.S. military and ahead of the police and CDC: https://harvardharrispoll.com/key-results-may-2 (page 15).

oulipo2 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Okay, now try applying your thinking to abusive healthcare insurance companies and see how well this fares...

WarOnPrivacy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Whoever made that happen when USPS couldn’t do it deserves to be a billionaire.

This bit might be a bit unfair. USPS and Amazon Delivery are different services, fulfilling different needs. Neither will deliver a pizza in 30 min or less, for example.

hawaiianbrah 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Neither will deliver a pizza in 30 min or less, for example.

Looks like Amazon will deliver me a (frozen) pizza in 23 minutes, actually!

callmeal 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Amazon can now deliver me stuff the same day of the next morning. That’s amazing, considering that it’s all done with trucks, warehouses, and other things that already existed in the 1990s. Whoever made that happen when USPS couldn’t do it deserves to be a billionaire.

It's also impossible without Amazon exploiting all the workers in the chain - from warehouse workers forced to undergo dehumanizing _unpaid_ searches that take hours when leaving the warehouse, to being forced to pee in bottles.

It is impossible to become a billionaire without exploting people.

imgabe 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Someone working a job they freely chose is not being exploited. This word is losing all meaning. Amazon pays more with better benefits than most other warehouse jobs.

canelonesdeverd 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If someone could pick and choose jobs they wouldn't be a warehouse worker, come on now.

imgabe 2 hours ago | parent [-]

Sure if people could just pick whatever they want we'd all be sitting on the beach having drinks with supermodels, but then who's going to make the drinks?

People can pick among various jobs. If they picked warehouse worker that was the best option available to them. Taking it away means they have to choose something worse.

And a job is not a lifetime commitment. Warehouse worker may be a stop on the way to something else. I worked in a warehouse for a while, now I don't. People are not static blobs.

WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Under capitalism, man exploits man.

Under communism, it's the other way around!

WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> exploting people

I.e. employing people

rayiner 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> It is impossible to become a billionaire without exploting people.

Explain this to me using math not feelings.

WalterBright 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

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