| ▲ | camgunz 6 hours ago |
| I really think people are sleeping on the AMOC. The first season there isn't European wine/cheese/olives because of climate change is the first season European farmers probably literally declare war on their governments, to say nothing of the fact that almost no European homes can handle this level of cold. And for some perspective, this is only one of many other huge changes that huge populations will react violently to in the next 20-50 years. Good luck to us all. |
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| ▲ | CalRobert 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| The farmers have generally opposed policies meant to address this. |
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| ▲ | monkpit 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > 'I never thought leopards would eat MY face,' sobs farmer who voted for the Leopards Eating People's Faces Party | |
| ▲ | GeoAtreides 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | what's your argument? are you actually making one or ... ? | | |
| ▲ | solid_fuel an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | They're pointing out that stupid short-sighted reactionary tendencies on the part of the farmers is directly contributing to the problem that will make their livelihood impossible in the future. It's ironic, if nothing else. | | |
| ▲ | GeoAtreides 28 minutes ago | parent [-] | | no, he's engaging into a classical "tu queque" that adds nothing but noise to the discussion, maybe except some division between classes and pointless finger-pointing |
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| ▲ | surgical_fire an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | His argument is that farmers are all a bunch of whiny bitches. It is also a truthful argument. |
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| ▲ | criticalfault an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| what is 'this level of cold' exactly? |
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| ▲ | alephnerd 14 minutes ago | parent [-] | | For example, Paris is more north of Montreal yet never has Montreal level winters, and is usually 10-20 degrees F warmer. There is a good visualization of the effects by Utrecht University [0] [0] - https://amocscenarios.org/ |
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| ▲ | 8note 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| i get the sense that its probably overblown, sicne we've only got a couple years worth of measured data on it. we're jumping to a catastrophe when it might just ring, and whatever the environmentalists who prioritize it qant to do about it might change something that doesnt need changing, and result in actual catastrophe when the ringing stops |
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| ▲ | mort96 5 hours ago | parent [-] | | I mean the collapse of the AMOC has been a hypothesized consequence of climate change for at least many decades. I was taught about it as something scientists think could happen in primary school; it's not new (tho it was framed in terms of the gulf stream, since that's the part of it which would affect Europe). Those fears were also founded on data-based climate prediction models. |
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| ▲ | Zababa 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I do kinda wish the european farmers would "declare war on the governments" so the governments can win and end this way too powerful lobby once and for all. |
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| ▲ | jeffbee 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I am interested in your implication that European farmers would have someone other than themselves to blame for this outcome. As a whole they are at least as backwards as American farmers. They are largely deniers of climate change either as a thing altogether or as something attributable to man, or are prone to believing it helps them with longer growing seasons, and their main political activity is protesting any changes in their diesel fuel subsidies. |
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| ▲ | piskov 6 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Well for one example of such case: German farmers (if there are any) could argue whether all those nuclear plants shutdowns were really for the best. | | |
| ▲ | jeffbee 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | I am even more intrigued by the "no German farmers" hypothesis. |
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| ▲ | camgunz 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | There's no referees in politics, and no rule that anyone's positions have to be consistent. You can complain about it the entire time farmer after farmer leaves shit pile after shit pile in the highways. | |
| ▲ | croes 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I guess that’s what parent meant. But just because it’s also their fault doesn’t hinder them to blame the government. Who do you think will MAGA blame for the consequences of climate change? | | |
| ▲ | solid_fuel an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | > Who do you think will MAGA blame for the consequences of climate change? They'll blame the people measuring the temperature, just like the did with covid when they blamed the testing for the rise in infection. They are, as a whole, very stupid people who really don't have the mental flexibility required to handle nuance. So they'll do what small-minded people always do - they'll shoot the messenger, then when that doesn't work they'll start blaming everyone who looks, lives, or believes differently from themselves. | |
| ▲ | bryanrasmussen 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Woke black people who sleep with members of their own gender!! | | |
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| ▲ | intended an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I remember a ted talk about climate change denial, and the speaker humanized the other parties beautifully. On engaging with deniers, he realized that denial was the only rational choice those people had. Climate change meant that their way of life, their livelihoods, history, homes, family and more, was gone. Disbelief was a way to have control over the impossible. | |
| ▲ | snickerbockers 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I don't see any point in blaming individuals and small businesses when wealthy investors and politicians aren't even pretending not to be giddy about all the new trade routes that open as sea ice melts. Nobody should ever adopt sustainable practices from which you only benefit when everybody else does, in which case a minority of people who didn't adopt sustainable practices also benefit. That's just bad economics. And then there's all the wealthy hypocrites who criticize the middle class while they make weekly flights with private jets. And dont forget the coal powered data centers, I wouldn't be surprised if there's some hypocrisy there from the epstein class too. |
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| ▲ | giantg2 6 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| "The first season there isn't European wine/cheese/olives because of climate change is the first season European farmers probably literally declare war on their governments," Unlikely. The government will be the only one who can bail them out. |
