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gcanyon 3 hours ago

As an American, I'm going to be really sad when we miss this transition. Maybe there's still time?

Yizahi 9 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

As a European, US will probably overtake Europe on EVs soon and fast. You have two unique differences to many other countries - a lot of population lives in private houses or condos, where they can just plug in EV in a regular socket without much changes. And US has a sprawling net of private solar installations which will stimulate EVs even more as soon as people will wake up to bills they incur. And lastly US has a proper non-broken and user friendly net of charging stations, courtesy of one rocketman.

Europe on the other hand had a big headstart and squandered it (and no, Norway doesn't count, Norway's experience can't and won't be transferred to other countries). I've spent almost a year looking at the new apartment complexes in a 1 mil city at different price tiers and levels of completion. Almost no charging spots in any of them, or maybe 1-2 spots per 200 apartment building AND they are priced even higher than high cost basic concrete parking place. Public charging stations are very limited in numbers, often closed or out of service. Interop is crap, I've used a corporate EV Astra while on a business trip and the card didn't work anywhere outside of the office parking lot, which by the way is a parking for a 5 storied business center occupied by IT companies and it has exactly 1 (one) moderately crappy charging pole with 1 (one) port. I had to drive to a Ford dealership in my Opel EV and a very pleasant gentleman had to swipe his card to start charging. Oh, and no charging poles had any display or app options, it literally had red, yellow or green led light and that's all we got. And it took me 1.5 hours to top up barely 100 km of range. Now that is an expensive 45k euro EV made no earlier than 2023 with minimal wear and mileage.

In short - Europe "rode" on a wave of rich individuals buying their fun cars and able to afford all externalities for them. This population is running out or leveling. And Europe (both collectively and per-country basis) did barely anything to prepare other people, without fun car money or private houses for EV transition. For example, in my freshly constructed building there are 180 apartments and zero EV chargers. Would any of us buy EV any time soon? Especially since just the car itself usually cost more than similar ICE and there are no subsidies? Doubt it. And it is starting to show, when wildly optimistic EV transition targets are starting being pushed in the future.

Zambyte 30 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Fellow American here, I hope we do. Not because electric cars are any worse than combustion cars - they are better. But they're still cars. Electrifying them is a bandaid on the gaping wound that is our transportation infrastructure. Ideally missing out on the electrification of cars dethrones the car as the only way most people get around.

coldpie 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Maybe there's still time?

I don't know that there is. It takes ages to develop an EV-focused platform, and the lines to manufacture it. Tesla is the only American manufacturer that has already done that work, and they're circling the drain. Aside from them, there's exactly one decent US-owned EV on the market, the Chevrolet Bolt. All of the top-of-the-line EVs are Korean or Chinese, and the 2nd tiers are all European. America's EVs aren't even on the horizon, they'll be playing catchup for decades.

bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> there's exactly one decent US-owned EV on the market, the Chevrolet Bolt.

I drive a Chevrolet Blazer EV. Test drove a Equinox EV as well. There is the silverado EV as well. Chrysler and Ford are mostly working on plug in hybrids which is 90% of the advantages of an EV for those who charge at home (if people will is debated).

Which is to say the big-3 car makers all have EV or close enough EV cars and are making more.

cogman10 2 hours ago | parent [-]

A major problem is that dealers hate carrying and selling EVs. If you want to get these vehicles you either have to special order them or you have to buy used.

I think a big portion of why Tesla is so prominent is because it's relatively easy to get a Tesla almost anywhere.

bluGill 38 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I only know that the Chevy dealer near me has several EVs on the lot. I have no idea about elsewhere though.

pjc50 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

I wonder how US-specific this phenomenon is. UK dealerships don't seem to have a problem stocking them, and have been quick to pick up BYD franchises.

kevin_thibedeau an hour ago | parent [-]

The US specific part is that a decent portion of the population makes, at least occasionally, longer trips outside of urban centers where more limited range, longer charging stops, and the need to carefully plan routes to hit chargers (that are hopefully functioning) make ICE derived power more attractive.

kirtakat 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Rivian as well - whether they're able to be successful long term or not is an open question.

afavour 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It’ll happen eventually, it’s an economic certainty. And when it finally does it probably won’t be that bad for the American consumer buying a car.

The real loss is the international trade and the effect that’ll have on the overall economy. Mexico and Canada will already be dominated by Chinese cars and it’ll be too late to compete.

infecto 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It will absolutely happen. BYD is already in Mexico and the door has been opened in Canada.

bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

While America is slow, the transition is happening. There are a fair number of electric cars on the road. Some like the cybertruck are obvious, but there are a lot of cars that come in ICE or EV variants that you can't tell and people are talking. Don't lose hope.

z2 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I see parallels with the failed metric system transition: a voluntary shift with inconsistent policy, the impression that it's all just an elitist/foreign conspiracy, cultural/political resistance, and so on. Of the major developed economies, only Japan is lower on BEV market share. Realistically the transition will probably happen in pockets, for instance California has similar EV sales share as Germany right now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_use_by_country

Grombobulous 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It will happen. My guess is that Canada is BYD’s pilot into the US. They have very similar buyer characteristics and the Canadian tariff deal allows them to enter the market without taking the risks of local factories.

It won’t take much to get BYD access to the US. It’s a two-step process:

- Toss a million bucks at Trump or wait for a Democratic administration

- Build a plant in Alabama/Tennessee/South Carolina/Georgia

That’s literally all it takes.

galangalalgol 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

A million? 100M only gets you an ev advertisement on the Whitehouse lawn. It will need to be something more like Saudi Arabia's investment in ivanka, i mean the affinity group. 25M a year to his son in law gets your phone calls answered when you feel like Iran is acting up too much.

I am not as optimistic. If that doesn't happen the only candidate likely to let china do as they wilt is aoc. Vance would happily start ww3 with them. Rubio/newsome/shapiro etc will all keep the full pressure of all allies in them, potentially kicking them out of places they already sell.

gpm 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Rubio/newsome/shapiro etc will all keep the full pressure of all allies in them, potentially kicking them out of places they already sell.

I sincerely doubt the US is capable of this. Trump has lit your soft power on fire. Trying to get people to give up a superior and cheaper product is an extremely large ask.

arjie 2 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The soft power that people talk about yielded instantly when used. Trump’s foreign policy has been fairly scatter shot and foolish but it has only revealed that soft power is only soft. When you attempt to exercise it you find nothing there.

The other world powers are exercising their will directly through power as power: no amount of Hollywood or America Is The Good Guy belief ever bought America a trade deal or sanction power.

The only power that America has is her Navy and the nuclear weapons under the seas. Power that cannot be summoned is not power. This particular illusion suited American allies and her wider array of beneficiaries because it allowed them to call upon the world hegemon for aid. But America is not that sole superpower anymore so it is useful to her to know the illusion for what it is: an illusion.

galangalalgol an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It is less about the us being capable of it, than the us getting out of the way. Japan, India, and SK all have vested interests in preventing further concentration of Chinese mercantilist power. Saying an establishment us president would focus the fury and might of allies is a bit outdated I agree. SK survived a coup, Piland is working on it. Hungary might even pull it off. Maybe the us will right the ship as well vs overcorrect into a different sort of populist autocrat. But even then as you say; That soft power went up in flames.

bluGill 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The leaders there know that China isn't exactly a friend of liberal western democracy. They have won the current round of propoganda, but that doesn't mean they are anyone's friend either.

gpm 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> They have won the current round of propoganda

No, they have won the current round of foreign relations. Threats to invade numerous allies. Blatant war crimes like murdering random people on boats. Violating established and signed trade deals left right and centre. Openly soliciting and accepting bribes. Kidnapping foreign countries citizens and holding them in inhumane camps. None of this is a matter of "propaganda" - it's a matter of actual actions the US is taking.

> The leaders there know that China isn't exactly a friend of liberal western democracy.

Indeed, but this has never been a prerequisite for trade with liberal western democracies. See for example the gulf monarchies we trade with.

It is pretty much a prerequisite for extraordinary actions like successfully asking liberal western democracies to restrict trade though, and the US no longer meets it...

bluGill an hour ago | parent [-]

> They have won the current round of foreign relations.

Which is to say Trump failed at the current round of propaganda. If he had won this round you would excuse all those things.

Being a friend of liberal western democracies is not a requirement for trade. However it does influence how trade happens.

>restrict trade though, and the US no longer meets it...

Again, the US lost the current round of propaganda.

gpm an hour ago | parent [-]

> Which is to say Trump failed at the current round of propaganda.

No, it really isn't. "Propaganda" merely refers to communication intended to influence. Trump failed when it came down to actual actions, not just communication. And when he failed in communication it was actual diplomacy meant to come to agreements, not merely the words meant to influence minds.

Propaganda is the least of the USes problems right now.

bluGill 40 minutes ago | parent [-]

Trumps actions made Chinese propaganda much easier. They are a direct cause of losing the propaganda war.

The US has bigger problems, but the propaganda is important since it influences the future.

zulux 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Agreed!

The CCP still hasn't figured out that we'll take their money and still hate them.

Western civilization has been sneaky and duplicitous for centuries, and we're good at it.

mjmsmith 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Still, if you're going to buy a car from an enemy of liberal western democracy, you might as well buy BYD over Tesla.

wombat-man 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Idk we have a lot of protectionism around vehicle sales in the US already. I don't think it'll be easy but it could happen.

pjc50 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I suspect America will continue to be weird about China until one of three things happens:

- a new Great Power enemy is selected; it would make sense for this to be Russia, but India is also a candidate

- some sort of face-saving moral victory is achieved which allows the US to continue feeling superior and not threatened by China's capability (unclear what this might look like)

- Xi dies and his replacement launches a relationship reset

eunos 2 hours ago | parent [-]

> Xi dies and his replacement launches a relationship reset

Among all Chinese leaders from the past and likely to the near future, Xi Jinping is the warmest towards US. He cherished his short stay in Iowa and his daughter graduated from Harvard. I dont think future leaders will share that feeling.

eunos 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Nope the congressfolks from Ohio and Michigan would never allows that