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prerok 8 hours ago

I remember reading an article in National Geographic of how crow's brains are much more interconnected than is the norm in mammals, i.e. IIRC they have a higher density of synapses between neurons. From that article, it seems that the usual brain weight vs. body weight to determine intelligence, which seems can be used to approximate intelligence in different species of mammals, cannot be used for birds (or at least crows, which the article was focusing on).

In other words, they seem to achieve better results with smaller brains than we thought. And yes, crows (in EU) do exhibit some pretty intelligent behavior.

Animats a minute ago | parent | next [-]

The brains of corvids are not closely related to mammalian brains. All the mammals have roughly the same brain, but corvids have a different architecture.[1]

Intelligence seems to have evolved three times on this planet - mammals, corvids, and octopuses. Octopuses have a distributed system rather than one central brain. They all have neurons, but the higher level architecture differs drastically.

Knowing that several different architectures can work is important for AI. There's apparently more than one way to do it.

[1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S23521...

JohnMakin 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I've read there's also a social aspect - crows are extremely social creatures, as are humans, and other highly intelligent animals like whales. That does seem to be a common denominator.

Regarding that, I'm reminded of another story - on my daily walk near work, there was a dead crow on the pavement. 5 or so crows were standing all around it, doing nothing really. Even me passing close by did not trigger them to fly away or anything, it seemed like they were standing watch on the body. The next day, it was still there, same thing. The 3rd day, it was gone, but the crows were still standing watch in the same manner. I didn't know what to make of it other than it appeared they were mourning or taking part in some type of ingroup ritual. I didn't see it again after that, but it struck me.

wrboyce 7 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Corvids have been known to investigate deaths, truly fascinating creatures!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00033...

Terr_ 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> [Social creatures] does seem to be a common denominator.

One theory is that it drives the creatures to internally model or simulate others intents and reactions, in a way which is a far more regular, consistent, and nuanced than any modeling of various prey or predators.

Further along that path is modeling future-me in plans, and layers of "I know they will know I know they know, so..."

CSMastermind 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm not an expert in the area but have read a bunch on this topic to try and understand it better. Bird brains and human brains are structured very differently. Birds are much more like GPUs with independent distributed processing happening in parallel. Mammals have these big bidirectional layers where signals are constantly propagating up and down in a big connected computation.

bruckie 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I wonder what the energy/evolutionary cost of densely-connected brains is. If it's advantageous, why are crows exceptional?

virgildotcodes an hour ago | parent | next [-]

In terms of why bird brains would be exceptionally efficient for their volume (and I assume by extension, mass), would be that weight is at a premium for them.

xeonmc 7 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Maybe they require the equivalent of advanced EUV machines to make?

IAmBroom 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

It could simply be an evolutionary "discovery", with no particular advantage over our "brain model". Evolution doesn't seek out optima; it simply encourages genetic structures that improve odds of reproductive success.

Or, to put it another way: if corvid genetics happened upon a brain type that promoted their survival, it doesn't matter if it was "better" or "worse" than the path the monkey/hominid brains took. Genetics took the first bus going in that direction.