The US is concerned about Chinese EVs taking over the market. For good reason they’re not happy bad and they’re extremely cheap. I’m no economist nor moralist so I can’t say if banning Chinese evs are the right move or not but I can understand the US wanting to try to create its own market before getting destroyed by the competitor. I don’t think it’s fair to say that speaks to the quality of the US alternatives. There’s plenty of smart people trying to put this together to create affordable domestic electric cars. Personally I applaud that and am happy that competition is getting legacy auto manufacturers to finally make some interesting cars.

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pepperoni_pizza 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

Ultimately China and US (and anyone else in the world for that matter) are doing the same thing - helping their domestic industry compete domestically and internationally, because they want prosperity for their country. They do it via different means - China via massive subsidies and US via bans and tariffs, but the end is the same.

If someone tries to tell you that these are somehow morally different, and one of them is the good guy and the other is the bad guy, they are pushing propaganda, knowingly or unknowingly.

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graemep 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

There is a national security and sovereignty issue that the European countries (and others) not facing - its similar to dependence on American clouds etc.

A lot of these vehicles rely on OTA updates or are controlled through apps. This essentially means the manufacturer controls them. Imagine the consequences if half the vehicles in your country stopped working, or became unsafe? Do you really want to hand this power to a foreign country?

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fanatic2pope 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

This type of concern could be ameliorated through the proper application of consumer protection laws concerning privacy and the right to modify and repair the things we own. The US doesn't want China to be able to spy on drivers because the US wants to be able to spy on drivers, which is why the proposed "solution" to your concerns is to simply ban Chinese cars. It's not about privacy or protecting consumers, it's about deciding which wolf gets to eat the sheep.

	▲	graemep 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		That is a different issue. There are many European countries where people have a high level of trust in their government so it would less of a concern assuming they are right. I think they are mistaken, even if their current government is trustworthy, as you should plan for bad future governments actions too.

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pjc50 5 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> This essentially means the manufacturer controls them

The thing is, this problem exists regardless of who the manufacturer is, and using nationalism to make it about China disguises the real problem. Tiktok didn't magically become safe or unsafe when it was divested.

	▲	graemep 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		When the manufacturer in turn is under the control of the foreign government it adds another problem. It is similar to how using AWS means your data is not safe from the US government.

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Cthulhu_ 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

No, but at the same time, the established car manufacturers are very protective of their own stuff so they are disincentivised from e.g. building a car that works offline. John Deere is infamous for this, locking down their machines to the point that they would become scrap if the company ever went under (for example).

But it's all capitalist forces, because while in theory new companies could start that make basic / offline / affordable / maintainable / reliable cars (and tractors, and everything else), there is simply not enough demand making them non-starters.

It's like people (on here) asking for open phone platforms or phones with smaller screens; they're a minority. Most people do not care.

	▲	graemep 4 days ago \| parent [-]
		Yes, a foreign company in control does all that and adds a sovereignty/national security issue. > It's like people (on here) asking for open phone platforms or phones with smaller screens; they're a minority. Most people do not care. That is partly because most people do not understand the benefits of open phone platforms. This is a lot easier to understand and similar issues have gained traction: e.g. sovereign cloud is much discussed now.

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GreenSalem 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]

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vsgherzi 5 days ago | parent | next [-]

China is definitely a manufacturing powerhouse. But if you think it’s morally superior to the USA I strongly recommend doing some reading. China is an authoritarian nation with extreme censorship as can be seen with the GFW. Criticism of the government is not taken well, LGBTQ content is forbidden, poor treatment of unsupported religions, poor acts of espionage, they have mongered plenty of wars and territory disputes themselves, and have been extremely poor stuwards of their corner of the internet onto the rest of the world.

China has no legs to stand on in a mortality debate. I’m not exactly of fan of things in the US recently either for the record

Edit: forgot to mention Taiwan as well as the Hong Kong protests. Recently individuals and an Artist were arrested in China for trying to remember those passed.

	▲	vsgherzi 5 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		Above all I believe in a democratic system where the people’s voices can be heard and we can agree on things together with proper representation. The US definitely dosent always get it right and there’s tons of evidence of this, however I do encourage our effort and hope that one day we can achieve the full foundations of the promises of the US.
	▲	UltraSane 5 days ago \| parent \| prev [-]
		If the US is shit, then the CCP is shit that has been eaten and puked back up.

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verve_rat 5 days ago | parent | prev [-]

You know China is busy genociding its Uyghurs population, right?

Their cars are probably better than US ones, but they are not free of the taint of genocide.

Edit: and that's not counting their aggressive territorial expansion in the South China Sea and their threats against Taiwan.

	▲	kaon_2 5 days ago \| parent \| next [-]
		I don't want to come across as the China pisser because most big countries do scumbag things of have done them (cough colonialism). But some more of China's vices that are out of sight: - Keep the war going in Myanmar with terrible results for the population of one of the biggest and most populous countries in the world. You just don't hear about it because no journalist goes there. - Keeping North Korea in the saddle whereas they could have gently pushed for improvements. - Keeping the war in Ukraine going. If Chinese leadership has any moral ambition, they could stop the war quickly. But they don't. Their own agenda comes first, as is the case with any superpower. But yes man I would buy a BYD immediatey and it pisses me off to no end that hey are 5x more expensive in Europe than in China. I guess the whole morality of free trade was only 'good' as long as it benefited us.
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