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somesortofthing 19 hours ago

This is a fun peek into the economic implications of RSI/ASI. Because it's so infinitely valuable that it basically destroys all markets, labs will eventually do stuff like stop releasing models completely and skipping out on contracted commitments because they'll have the power to just drive their competitors out of business before the legal battle gets expensive.

Cloud providers - at first smaller ones, then the hyperscalers - will follow suit, completely closing sales to anyone but the labs and demanding payment in equity/direct decision-making power rather than cash. There's no particular reason why the inference/training split has to be 80/20, and no amount of willingness to pay can help you in an event that turns your money worthless.

stratos123 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think this scenario makes sense. It's one of a class of scenarios I've seen several of, that simultaneously assume:

  A) ASI is developed and massively overshadows the rest of the world economy 
  B) the world still has rule of law, contracts, business, well-developed finance, etc
You can get to a lot of weird conclusions if you assume both A and B, but I think the much more likely scenario is that if A happens, B stops being true in short order. If you are a company and you have ASI, you just stop caring about business and money and economics, and your outcomes instead start looking like "you conquer the world" or "you upload the board of directors to a fleet of von Neumann probes" or "you messed up, everyone dies".
somesortofthing 18 hours ago | parent | next [-]

There will be a brief(or, depending on the underlying rules of reality ASI uncovers, not-so-brief) period where A and B do overlap - we have superintelligence but still have to run experiments, manufacture robots, test new drugs in vivo, etc. That period is in and of itself dangerous for the labs, because many entities can just stop them by denying necessary inputs. For the labs to conquer the world, they'll need cooperation - from the state, from robotics companies, from compute companies, from the mining and energy and agriculture sectors.

There will be a period of time where markets attempt to run in a business-as-usual way while the transactions that matter happen as power-sharing arrangements - spots on the "AI Governance Board" or the "uploaded to von neumann probe" club. Markets will still matter in that the labs will need the state to overturn market obstacles to control of the world.

The existence of the A-B overlap also suggests to me that the US-China gap is less dire for China than it appears - they may be able to use their superior industrial, robotics, and scientific base to win the second leg of the race despite losing the first.

viking123 8 hours ago | parent [-]

Everyone on this forum will be under ground LONG before any of this becomes real.

pixl97 17 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The combination of A and B is cyberpunk at its core, it takes off in the form of corporate consolidation and then control of the government. Large corporations will still have the rule of law between each other because they'll have both money and hard power. The average individual that wants to rise up against said corps will quickly be identified by ubiquitous surveillance and imprisoned/slave labor camped.

Meneth 7 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

The "everyone dies" scenario is overwhelmingly likely given that no solutions to either inner or outer alignment exist.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AI_alignment

platinumrad 19 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Nothing is infinitely valuable.

HoldOnAMinute 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

10 engineers can make a billion dollar company. One Claude can replace 10 engineers.

This gets very close to "infinitely valuable", it starts to look like a vertical line to me

platinumrad 17 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I don't think one Claude can replace ten engineers of the caliber it takes to build a billion dollar company.

I also don't think that every set of ten engineers of that level builds a billion dollar company every time.

There is also a limit to the number of billion dollar companies that can be built before being a "billion dollar company" no longer means much (see: Zimbabwe).

zarzavat 16 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

That assumes a world where nobody else has AI.

There's a night and day difference between:

1. One party has ASI and everybody else has nothing but their human brains.

2. One party has ASI and everybody else has high-level AI but not quite ASI.

Most science fiction assumes world 1, because it's a better narrative. However, we actually live in world 2.

moezd 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

10 engineers build a billion dollar company and immediately realise they need 1000 people to run it. Getting 1000 Claude licenses will still be expensive, let alone maintaining those swarms of agents.

root_axis 13 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> 10 engineers can make a billion dollar company

Not really. It's possible they could, but in practice they cannot. Creating a billion dollar company requires a good idea, good timing, and a lot of luck, the engineers are the least important part.

captainbland 10 hours ago | parent | next [-]

More than that it takes things like the right social connections, strong marketing, insight into customer demand, infrastructure spend, etc. You can't normally just convert engineering effort into profit in the way implied.

baq 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don’t see anything in your argument that supports your thesis tbh, if anything, it supports the opposite

suddenlybananas 8 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

One guy with a shovel can dig up a diamond!

otabdeveloper4 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Damn, now if only I could find 10 engineers!

A billion bucks, here I come!

dominotw 15 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> 10 engineers can make a billion dollar company.

this wont be possible by the time its possible. there would be massive deflation. why would i care about 10 engineeers prompts when i can prompt it myself

dakolli 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

There's literally no indication that this is the case, or will ever be. Unless you're a completely naive person who's impressed with all output of an LLM because you don't know what you're talking about. These models aren't impressive, and the people who think they are impressive are even less impressive.

platinumrad 16 hours ago | parent [-]

The is a large middle ground between "aren't impressive" and "Claude can spit out billion dollar companies on demand".

knollimar 25 minutes ago | parent [-]

A dog talking is impressive but you can't build a SaaS around it as if it's a genius.

The dog's words aren't the impressive part here

windexh8er 19 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Especially when you can actively choose to not use Anthropic. They think they have a moat from all of the IP they've stolen. Just wait until there's nothing more to steal and the laws eventually turn against them. And let's be honest about these companies. It is very much Dario and Sam and Sundar and Mark and Peter and Elon and... These are the choices they are making and hopefully they are held accountable both legally and within society as a whole.

gck1 15 hours ago | parent | next [-]

> Especially when you can actively choose to not use Anthropic

I think what all western AI labs want is to take away that ability from you.

SauntSolaire 18 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

I don't think you understand the hypothetical being discussed

windexh8er 17 hours ago | parent [-]

You're confusing 'didn't understand it' with 'didn't buy it.' Only one of those is a comprehension issue, and it's not mine.

pixl97 17 hours ago | parent [-]

No, you pretty obviously didn't understand it, at least in the sense of ASI being talked about. The whole "oh don't buy it" stops mattering. Humans are no longer the sole creators of information and intelligence. That is AI no longer has to steal, but humans will have to beg, borrow, or steal the information/products that ASI creates.

windexh8er 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

I didn't say "buy" anything. You've clearly bought into the narrative that ASI is even remotely possible with current architectures. You've chosen to ignore all of the lies that have thus far failed to come to fruition. The assumption is an insane leap from models in a loop that have no intelligence to models taking over the "sole creators of information and intelligence". Anthropic marketing is doing a phenomenal job for a large portion of those in the bubble.

platinumrad 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

That's not going to happen.

pixl97 16 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Convincing argument, you win this one.

15 hours ago | parent [-]
[deleted]
baq 12 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Good to be an optimist, I envy you

kosh2 10 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Way before that it will become political. Regulation is the only true threat left anyways.

otabdeveloper4 9 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Because it's so infinitely valuable that it basically destroys all markets

We have 8 billion natural intelligences already. (Each of them more intelligent than any LLM.)

For some reason this didn't destroy all markets. There's also diverging opinion about infinite value.

dakolli 17 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[flagged]