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Qhemlomo 6 hours ago

At least Alphabet, Microsoft and Amazon can afford it.

Nvidia is not losing anything if their stock falls.

So whats left? The typical candidates of course: We poor people. 401k, ETF, etc. we pay the bill.

skybrian 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

If the S&P 500 dropped 20%, that's about a year's growth. Long-term investors who bought before that would be poorer than they thought they were, but they're not worse off than they started and there wouldn't be any particular bill to pay. If they're a long term investor then they can wait for it to come back. (A similar argument could be made for larger drops.)

The real suffering comes from whatever effect there is on the rest of the economy due to a recession, more layoffs, etc.

Qhemlomo 4 hours ago | parent [-]

They can sit it out but that doesn't mean no one paid the bill.

And some others might need to pull out when its down.

Money doesn't appear out of thin air.

Why would it lead to recession if a handful of big companies lose money they have?

It will show that the USA is in a recession for sure, but otherwise

skybrian 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

No, asset values are not like energy. There's no conservation rule.

When stocks get bid up, market valuation goes up far more than the amount of money that changed hands. Most of the market cap appears "out of thin air." It's just what people think it's worth.

And when the stock goes down again, it goes back where it came from.

The investors who bought stock at too high a price lose some of the money they put in, but there are others who never paid that price.

somewhereoutth 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

> Money doesn't appear out of thin air.

In fact [fiat] money does appear out of thin air (well, created by banks when they originate loans) - and has to to support a growing economy. Unfortunately, for various reasons, rather too much has been appearing, and has been funneled to the already wealthy.

xiaoyu2006 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I always think 401k is not fair at all. It kinda forces one to invest and pump the stock prices.

brokencode 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

With most 401k plans, you can choose what you invest in to an extent. You can put it in bonds or other investments if you want.

idiotsecant 4 hours ago | parent [-]

This doesnt fix the systemic issue. Most people put their money in a target fund and leave it alone. Those target funds are at risk of being forced to buy these over-inflated assets. The incentive to do this is there because those target funds and naive investors exist.

JumpCrisscross 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Those target funds are at risk of being forced to buy these over-inflated assets

Target funds are diversely managed. This isn’t a real concern.

bluGill 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Until someone can come up with a better option though...

Note that a pension plan that invests for you blindly is no better - either the returns are so bad that they are a scam, or they are investing in stocks anyway and so you get the same results but less control. Similar for things like social security, they are either worse options or you need to pump stocks.

granra 3 hours ago | parent [-]

> Until someone can come up with a better option though...

A welfare state maybe?

SubmarineClub 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And the money to pay for all those retirees comes from…where?

Ray20 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Eh? Like in North Korea?

nick__m 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Something like the CDPQ in Québec ?

granra 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

More like most European countries.

hdndjsbbs 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is what financial capitalism and "democratizing finance" has meant in practice. Rich people have access to different types of investments, and by the time those trickle down to common investors the juice has all been squeezed out. Whatever the trend is, by the time you hear about it the market has already been arbitraged by faster investors with more resources.

We are not going to come up with a market-based solution to fix income inequality. The solution, as much as people in the dwindling middle class resist it, is a strong social safety net coupled with a hard reset on taxation and housing policies. Nobody should be homeless, nobody should be allowed to starve, but you might have to accept that your 401K goes down in exchange for a government guarantee of housing and food.

This is hard for people to accept because they currently have equity in their home or a 401K to save them from starving. But those are transient, individualistic solutions. You can lose your house. You can lose your 401K. Society should be taking care of each other in a broader way than letting everyone accumulate a little, private pile of money.

WarmWash 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>Rich people have access to different types of investments,

You mean hedge funds and private equity/private credit that all under perform S&P500?

hdndjsbbs 3 hours ago | parent [-]

The people who have private investments in SpaceX pre-IPO definitely have access to investments I don't have access to.

WarmWash 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't even mention venture capital because the win rate is so low. When you have billions already, then maybe you can buy $10M lotto tickets that get pitched to you. If you're a regular guy and want risk exposure like that, you can buy penny stocks.

Everyone is so fixated on the winners, that they completely forget (or aren't even aware) that there a many many times more losers.

Eisenstein an hour ago | parent [-]

I think people understand that there are losers. What they are complaining about is that the losers can dump $10M on a lotto ticket and not feel any pain when it disappears. If all those with money are are placing huge long-shot bets and cashing out when they win then what does that say about the state of the system, and markets in general? I don't know exactly, but I don't think it's good.

throw-the-towel 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The middle class resists it because we know who will be taxed through the nose to fund this safety net. Hint: it's not the ultra rich.

hdndjsbbs 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why the fuck not? This is such a stupid perspective, "we shouldn't make things better because I imagined a way it could be bad".

throw-the-towel an hour ago | parent [-]

It's you who is imagining things here, I'm speaking from my actual experience in an EU country.

SubmarineClub 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You do realize that basically all those fancy ‘exotic asset’ classes underperform the S&P 500, right?

hdndjsbbs 3 hours ago | parent [-]

Why does anyone participate in VC funds or PE at all then?

jdale27 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You don’t have to invest your 401k in stocks.

TSiege 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

If Alphabet can afford it why are they issuing $80B in new shares for fresh capital?

matwood 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

When money is cheap you take it. Google sees all the capital waiting to pour into these AI IPOs, and correctly assumed they could tap into that with little dilution.

skybrian 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

It makes good financial sense for a company to sell shares when the price is high and do stock buybacks when it's low. I guess they think the price is on the high side?

Also, selling shares puts them in a better position to survive a downturn (more cash, less debt).

jorvi 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

In a real competitive market it would never make financial sense to do stock buybacks because competition is so fierce you need to invest it all in R&D and sharp prices for your customers. See the Chinese EV market.

Stock buybacks are also a tax trick.

They're just holistically evil and should have never been made legal.

Analemma_ 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Google is also issuing a bunch of debt this year. It sounds like they need a lot of capital and want to keep a particular debt/equity ratio, rather than having a strong opinion on their share price.

Qhemlomo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Just look at the net income of alphabet.

Whatever financial games they play in the background, doesn't matter when you make that much per 2 quarters alone.