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xiaoyu2006 5 hours ago

I always think 401k is not fair at all. It kinda forces one to invest and pump the stock prices.

brokencode 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

With most 401k plans, you can choose what you invest in to an extent. You can put it in bonds or other investments if you want.

idiotsecant 5 hours ago | parent [-]

This doesnt fix the systemic issue. Most people put their money in a target fund and leave it alone. Those target funds are at risk of being forced to buy these over-inflated assets. The incentive to do this is there because those target funds and naive investors exist.

JumpCrisscross 4 hours ago | parent [-]

> Those target funds are at risk of being forced to buy these over-inflated assets

Target funds are diversely managed. This isn’t a real concern.

bluGill 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Until someone can come up with a better option though...

Note that a pension plan that invests for you blindly is no better - either the returns are so bad that they are a scam, or they are investing in stocks anyway and so you get the same results but less control. Similar for things like social security, they are either worse options or you need to pump stocks.

granra 5 hours ago | parent [-]

> Until someone can come up with a better option though...

A welfare state maybe?

SubmarineClub 4 hours ago | parent | next [-]

And the money to pay for all those retirees comes from…where?

Ray20 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

Eh? Like in North Korea?

nick__m 3 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Something like the CDPQ in Québec ?

granra 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

More like most European countries.

hdndjsbbs 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is what financial capitalism and "democratizing finance" has meant in practice. Rich people have access to different types of investments, and by the time those trickle down to common investors the juice has all been squeezed out. Whatever the trend is, by the time you hear about it the market has already been arbitraged by faster investors with more resources.

We are not going to come up with a market-based solution to fix income inequality. The solution, as much as people in the dwindling middle class resist it, is a strong social safety net coupled with a hard reset on taxation and housing policies. Nobody should be homeless, nobody should be allowed to starve, but you might have to accept that your 401K goes down in exchange for a government guarantee of housing and food.

This is hard for people to accept because they currently have equity in their home or a 401K to save them from starving. But those are transient, individualistic solutions. You can lose your house. You can lose your 401K. Society should be taking care of each other in a broader way than letting everyone accumulate a little, private pile of money.

WarmWash 5 hours ago | parent | next [-]

>Rich people have access to different types of investments,

You mean hedge funds and private equity/private credit that all under perform S&P500?

hdndjsbbs 4 hours ago | parent [-]

The people who have private investments in SpaceX pre-IPO definitely have access to investments I don't have access to.

WarmWash 3 hours ago | parent [-]

I didn't even mention venture capital because the win rate is so low. When you have billions already, then maybe you can buy $10M lotto tickets that get pitched to you. If you're a regular guy and want risk exposure like that, you can buy penny stocks.

Everyone is so fixated on the winners, that they completely forget (or aren't even aware) that there a many many times more losers.

Eisenstein 2 hours ago | parent [-]

I think people understand that there are losers. What they are complaining about is that the losers can dump $10M on a lotto ticket and not feel any pain when it disappears. If all those with money are are placing huge long-shot bets and cashing out when they win then what does that say about the state of the system, and markets in general? I don't know exactly, but I don't think it's good.

throw-the-towel 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

The middle class resists it because we know who will be taxed through the nose to fund this safety net. Hint: it's not the ultra rich.

hdndjsbbs 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Why the fuck not? This is such a stupid perspective, "we shouldn't make things better because I imagined a way it could be bad".

throw-the-towel 2 hours ago | parent [-]

It's you who is imagining things here, I'm speaking from my actual experience in an EU country.

SubmarineClub 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You do realize that basically all those fancy ‘exotic asset’ classes underperform the S&P 500, right?

hdndjsbbs 4 hours ago | parent [-]

Why does anyone participate in VC funds or PE at all then?

jdale27 5 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You don’t have to invest your 401k in stocks.