| ▲ | trumpdong 3 hours ago |
| There is no good reason to have a humanoid robot. None. Dishwashers do best in a dishwasher shape. |
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| ▲ | 01100011 an hour ago | parent | next [-] |
| A couple weeks ago I saw a proud post by a humanoid robot CEO showing off how well his robots could sort objects on an assembly line. It was painful to watch. It's like he's never seen a real industrial sorting system in his life. Vision algos from 30 years ago along with simple mechanics or puffs of air were doing it 100x faster back then. I'm not convinced there is a bubble in AI, but there's definitely one in humanoid robots. |
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| ▲ | IshKebab 8 minutes ago | parent | next [-] | | Yeah but the idea is that you can have a generalist robot that can do many different assembly line tasks. There are plenty of manufacturing tasks that are still done by humans because it's too much hassle to make a dedicated robot to do it. Even on high volume car manufacturing it's very common to have human steps. Sorting is just where they've got to so far; not the final destination. | |
| ▲ | htrp an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is the figure tweet? | | |
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| ▲ | mattlondon 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A robot that cleans my toilet would be nice. Sure I could have a dedicated toilet cleaning robot, and a dedicated dishwasher loading robot, and a dedicated pickup-up-crap-off-the-floor-the-kids-have-left-around-robot ... or just something general purpose? I don't care if it is humanoid or not, but given that our house is built for humans to interact with it seems reasonable that it should fit into that space. |
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| ▲ | logicchains an hour ago | parent [-] | | A robot with enough arm strength to properly clean a stubborn toilet wouldn't be safe around kids. | | |
| ▲ | mattlondon an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | I let my current cleaner be around my kids. Now the question is is it riskier to have basically a stranger with strong arms in my house near my kids, or a robot with strong arms in my house near my kids? I feel like a robot has the technical capacity to see behind it and stop (I have many times for example been using the vacuum and moving my arm forwards and backwards and whacked a kid in the face with my elbow on the backswing because they've walked up behind me and I've not known, but a robot with literal eyes and radar in the back of its head would spot that situation and freeze). Similar to self-driving cars: they have lots more eyes than a human has, and can be looking everywhere at once etc. But do we trust the programming? Do we trust the human cleaning my toilet's "programming" (thoughts, emotions, motives etc)? | |
| ▲ | forgotusername6 34 minutes ago | parent | prev [-] | | It just needs the patience to apply and gently scrub with mild chemicals for several hours. |
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| ▲ | nerdjon 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| A dishwasher is the only reason you can think of a humanoid robot? How about a robot to load and unload the dishwasher. The fact is we live in a world built for humans. I have a robot vacuum and for it to be effective I had to setup my home in a certain way, and even then it is not fully effective. People pay for cleaners to come into their home all the time, it shouldn't be hard to think why a humanoid robot would (theoretically, if it worked well) be far better than a purpose built machine in the home. But also in many cases working with those machines. |
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| ▲ | hilariously an hour ago | parent [-] | | You could build fully humanoid robots that solve every problem generically, or you could solve the sub problems much more efficiently - I don't know why everyone is all in on the hardest problem when in software and hardware we find that the "solve everything" tool basically doesn't work, because solving everything is usually solving nothing very fast. |
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| ▲ | quietbritishjim 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Where is my non-humanoid robot that does all the household cleaning? Including vacuuming the stairs (a roomba doesn't work there), dusting the surfaces, mopping floors, cleaning windows... I guess a warehouse can be designed in a way that works well for a non-humanoid robot, but an environment designed for people in the first place (like a home) fundamentally needs to be person-shaped. |
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| ▲ | usrnm 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Dishwashers also cannot work without a human loading and unloading dishes. How do you propose to automate this part? |
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| ▲ | nearlyepic 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | It would actually be pretty easy to do with regular robotics (well, compared to a humanoid robot anyways). The reason nobody does it is that it takes up a ton of space which is at a huge premium in pretty much every kitchen ever. Also like, loading and unloading the dishwasher is not that hard or time consuming. | | |
| ▲ | mattlondon 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Also like, loading and unloading the dishwasher is not that hard or time consuming. For a me a robot to do the dishwasher would be the number 1 reason for me to buy one. My dishwasher is basically going at least twice sometimes three times a day (household with small kids). If I "miss" a slot to get everything washed before the next meal time then two things happen: - the unwashed things begin to build up so there are too many things to fit in the next round and its hard to catch up. - the things to need to use for meal-Y were still dirty from meal-X so you cant use foo etc. Its "not much effort" true - perhaps 10-15 mins to unload then reload, but you need to do it 3 or 4 or more times a day AND you need to be there to do it on time so that there is time for it to finish it's load before meal-X etc. If you are exhausted and its already 11pm and you've got to do your 3rd go at the dishwasher for the day so dirty things from dinner are getting washed and things are put away and ready for breakfast in the morning etc its really annoying. Its the last thing you want to do before going to bed. Or its morning and you're trying to get everyone out the door to school/work and the like, and you need to get the dishes going so that they're clean and ready to unload at lunch time (so that you can get the dirty lunch dishes in at lunch time etc).... you can see how this builds up into quite a pain in the ass hamster wheel. I would 110% buy a humanoid robot for the cost of a decent second-hand car (so lets say about GBP10-15K) that was able to reliably do three or four 1 hour shifts per day doing basic house-keeper duties autonomously. So aforementioned dishes, cleaning down the dinner table, wiping down the kitchen worktops/countertops, picking up toys and cushions and shoes etc, then it can just go fold itself back into a cupboard in the kitchen to recharge for its next shift. Doesn't have to cook or play the violin or anything, basically just pick up crap off the floor and do the dishes every few hours so I don't have to. Bonus points if it can do it while I am working and/or it can do it silently at night A man can dream. | | |
| ▲ | nearlyepic an hour ago | parent [-] | | You have a house with small kids and you want a 600 pound autonomous robot walking around? These aren’t funny tech products, they’re industrial equipment. | | |
| ▲ | letmevoteplease an hour ago | parent [-] | | Figure 03 is 134 pounds. 1x NEO (the only one really designed for household usage) is 66 pounds. Unitree R1 is 55 pounds. None of these are ready for real work yet but probably at some point in the future we will have practical humanoids. |
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| ▲ | nkozyra 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I think this is a good point, but it ignores the idea that a human form is not the ideal (or even closet to) one to do specific and generalized jobs. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Maybe not human form, but my house is designed for humans. It needs to be able to handle stairs. It needs to handle my doors and halls. It needs to reach upper shelves that are human height (my wife is short and constantly complains about things on a top shelf she cannot reach). I have corners in my house that a large dog can only manage because their spine bends. Human form in many ways is a constraint. | |
| ▲ | simondotau 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | It is ideal insofar as the world has been created with humans in mind. And it’s easier to acquire training data for human shaped entities than for some hypothetical better shape. |
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| ▲ | Aardwolf 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'd love the robot to fill and empty the dishwasher and put the stuff in the correct drawers and cabinets edit: but if the robot could in addition also do dishes in the sink and not need a dishwasher at all, that'd also save up space in the kitchen for something else |
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| ▲ | 01100011 an hour ago | parent [-] | | I'd rather have two dishwashers and an automated loading/dispensing system built into each one. The dishwasher is already a fairly optimal dish storage device. Using somewhat standardized dish dimensions would make it fairly easy to implement. | | |
| ▲ | bluGill an hour ago | parent [-] | | I wish my kitchen was that big, but even then I think I'd prefer to have my plates stacked. Sure the ones my family uses every meal may as well live in the dishwasher, but I have a few more because once in a while I have guests (or they break) and I don't want those to have the empty space between them the dishwasher needed. |
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| ▲ | lenerdenator 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| Depends on what your definition of "good" is. If your definition is "it could, at some point, enable me to stop paying humans for their labor and pass along more of the value to major shareholders like myself", then yes, that's a reason to want humanoid robots. If your definition of "good" is a little more broadly scoped than the above - which it should be if you don't have an MBA and a substance abuse problem - then you're correct. |
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| ▲ | letmevoteplease 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | In a competitive market, this won't happen: "passing along more of the value to major shareholders like myself." The price of human labor will go down, but competition will force the price of goods to go down alongside it. Profit margins will stabilize, but the cost of living and the cost of goods will plummet. It's like the invention of the power loom: it was terrible for the wages of hand-weavers, but it made clothing radically cheaper and more abundant for the rest of humanity. The only way the shareholders keep all the value is if we allow monopolies to form. The potential difference here is that it might eliminate all human labor which would likely force us into some new kind of economy. Hopefully something better than one where humans waste their lives on manual labor. |
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