| ▲ | SamBam 6 hours ago |
| I don't think the article really tried to answer the question, though maybe that wasn't its intent and the author was genuinely asking. I think an answer would need to look at the difference in how kids and teens play soccer in the US vs other countries. In the US soccer is mostly a younger kids' sport, and is generally highly structured, with kids playing on teams once or twice a week. Compare to Europe, where many boys are playing once or twice every day, in an unstructured format, during recess and after school. Starting from a young age, Europeans who show talent are getting drafted into soccer academies before they're 10, greatly increasing the amount of competitive play. But this is on top of the everyday soccer they're playing. For a US kid, soccer is typically "pay to play." A local league costs money. A private high school with a good program costs money. In Europe, beyond (again) the continuous unstructured play, the academies and farm teams are free. Finally, a good European player doesn't usually head to college. They may be playing for a serious club team at 17 or 18. Meanwhile, a gifted US soccer player heads to college (maybe on a scholarship but maybe not--again, pay to play), plays for the varsity team a few times a week during the season, and four years later might get on one of the relatively few club teams. |
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| ▲ | jasonwatkinspdx 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] |
| Yeah, this difference occurred to me while traveling in rural Mexico. To play soccer all you need is a ball. So you can go into the poorest villages that have little in the way in infrastructure and all the kids are playing soccer in the dirt road or a random field, etc. And often enough adults join in because they were once the kids too. So it's this very pervasive, almost universal shared experience there. Totally different than my experience as a kid in the 80s that did indoor soccer briefly. One observation my friend made while we were talking about this one time down there, is that basketball plays a similar role in the US. Yeah you need a hoop not just a ball, but that ends up approachable. In fact my neighbor down the block keeps a portable hoop set up in the parking strip so long as it's dry out, and right now a couple kids are playing some casual 1 on 1 lol. Anyhow it's really clear that having a huge community available with few barriers to play and learn makes a huge difference. Now that I think about it another similar experience was seeing my ex that grew up in Taiwan play some ping pong in a bar here in the US. She didn't particularly care about ping pong or play it much, but because she was immersed in it at school as a kid she could still smoke anyone in that bar easily lol. |
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| ▲ | jandrewrogers 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | The counterpoint to this is that, broadly speaking, Mexico is demonstrably no better at soccer than the US when it matters. A common talking point in recent years is that the US league is actually better at developing Mexican talent than the Mexican league, though that somewhat reflects different incentives. I think a core issue is that US and Mexican teams rarely have an opportunity to compete against teams significantly better than themselves. Furthermore, structural constraints within both leagues limit the amount of talent separation that can occur between teams, so it looks a bit like being stuck in a local minima in terms of talent development. | | |
| ▲ | huevosabio 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Mexico performs as you'll expect a third world country that loves football to perform, and the US performs as well as you would expect a first world country that is ambivalent to football to perform. I think the real mystery is, how come Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay play so much better than what you would expect from relatively poor countries? My guess is that their leagues are fairly developed industries, like you would expect in the first world. | | |
| ▲ | sumanep 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | We play football every time in Argentina, not to say in Brazil | |
| ▲ | eldaisfish 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Football in Brazil has history, legacy, and mind share. I can name several professional teams from Brazil - Flamenco, Corinthians, Santos, etc. I also know of River Plate, Rosario and Boca Juniors from Argentina. This points to the fact that Brazilian and Argentine teams are older than the Mexican teams. I cannot name a single Mexican team, and that is partly because the oldest club dates back to the 1940s. The oldest Brazilian and Argentina clubs date back to the 1900s. | | |
| ▲ | loloquwowndueo 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > I cannot name a single Mexican team, and that is partly because the oldest club dates back to the 1940s. Teams like Atlante and América were founded in 1916. |
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| ▲ | brudgers 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The Mexican Primera favors a unique type of athlete…players who can regularly play at 10,000 feet (3000m) because many matches are played in and around Mexico City. And other clubs are also above 5000 feet. Add in daytime heat, night cold, humidity and smog and you get a very different practical reality that shapes the pace and tactics of the Primeria and soccer culture in general. In turn that shapes who succeeds as a soccer playing athlete. | | |
| ▲ | scythe 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | This is an interesting theory. But do Mexican soccer players do much better at home games? | | |
| ▲ | brudgers an hour ago | parent [-] | | Not clear what you are asking, but at the international level Azteca is notoriously advantageous…of course top European sides never visit so there’s no general empirical data. And you won’t get much more from the world cup because the only ceded European side favored to play at Azteca is England in the round of 8. |
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| ▲ | Symbiote 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Cricket is even more accessible: you need a bat (which could be a piece of wood), but you don't need space. You can compress the game to play in a 1.5m wide alleyway between two buildings. I think this is why it became so popular in India etc. | | |
| ▲ | airstrike 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Soccer is still more accessible. You don't even need a ball. As a kid, you'll find yourself kicking around a crushed coke can with friends and trying to score. | |
| ▲ | brudgers 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Cricket also does not require a lot of running and because the defense controls the ball, it fills a lot of time at a slow pace. Like Baseball, a Sunday afternoon game has a low risk of an injury that prevents work on Monday. | | |
| ▲ | brigandish an hour ago | parent [-] | | My mate broke someone's arm bowling at him. Cricket always has an element of danger, for both the fielders and the batters. |
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| ▲ | zem 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | there is also a ton of grass-roots football in India, with kids kicking a ball around wherever there is a space for it. that doesn't translate to having good national teams simply because there is not much funding to develop the game, unlike with cricket. |
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| ▲ | WhyNotHugo an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > Yeah, this difference occurred to me while traveling in rural Mexico. To play soccer all you need is a ball. So you can go into the poorest villages that have little in the way in infrastructure and all the kids are playing soccer in the dirt road or a random field, etc. The same is true in Argentina. And in school kids play almost every recess too. A lot of very prominent player from Argentina had this kind of humble beginning too. | | |
| ▲ | Spooky23 6 minutes ago | parent [-] | | It’s also “the sport”. Americans don’t really do casual sports anymore and there is a ton of competition in the various leagues. In many parts of the US, soccer is a fall sport that competes with football in school leagues. Football teams require a small army of players and tend to suck out the oxygen. It doesn’t help that there’s no little league equivalent for soccer, so there’s a ton of pay to play BS to a much greater degree than football or baseball. In my area, you need to commit to a full year travel soccer team that’s often owned by the school coach to get any playtime in high school. |
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| ▲ | WalterBright an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | I played soccer during recess at school. I was inept at it. I was terrible at football, too. I really stunk at basketball. Berry berry bad at baseball. Sank at swimming. | |
| ▲ | mcmoor 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I thought the concrete ground is much more important for basketball, otherwise the ball would bounce all over the place. In comparison, muddy ground for soccer is part of the fun. |
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| ▲ | rauljordan2020 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I'm from Honduras, which is also quite a poor country, and the sport (soccer) is all we do and all everyone talks about. It's a core part of our society and a core part just what one does as a human, so since we are kids we think of always kicking a ball around no matter where you are, even fashioning balls from socks tied together or rubber bands, and we all learn how to control them really well even barefoot, in difficult terrain, in rain, sun, shine, anything. It isn't a structured activity. Coming to the US I realized so many American sports need a ton of setup...lots of expensive equipment, a full squad, a special field (baseball), etc. and not just something you can do easily on the street with your friends. It isn't "lived and breathed" as it is where I'm from, and we have so many incredible players. Unfortunately, we are a poor country so the best players won't become professionals and instead pursue other careers, so our national team isn't great, but I know guys that could easily be pros in Europe if they went down that path |
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| ▲ | _DeadFred_ 15 minutes ago | parent [-] | | In the US we had the same but for pickup American football. We played on the street in the neighborhood every night, and had standing games at a kind centralized empty field on Sat/Sunday where everyone know to just show up and there'd be a game, or after it rained (mud football). Only equipment was a football or a nerf football. Kids are kids :) |
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| ▲ | glitchc 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| How proficient a country is at a given sport is derived from the size of the feeder pool. Baring extremely rare exceptions, top talent is strongly correlated with deep feeder pools. Sports are always cultural: Kids grow up idolizing the stars of their childhood, and those stars are drawn from the sports their parents and community expose them to. In Europe, soccer is the biggest sport, everyone grows up watching soccer on weekends and so the feeder pool (i.e. the pool of kids who are drawn to the game) is much greater than other sports. Deep feeder pool allows the system to filter relentlessly to tease out the best. In the US, and North America in general, kids grow up watching football, basketball, baseball and hockey. So that's what kids end up playing, and all of those sports have deep feeder pools. Soccer not so much. |
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| ▲ | confidantlake 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think you are overlooking the more obvious answer. All the talent gets sucked up by the nfl/nba/mlb. |
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| ▲ | onlypassingthru an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | IIRC, Steve Nash wanted to play professional soccer but since there wasn't a professional pathway had to settle for playing basketball in college and later the NBA. | |
| ▲ | NotGMan 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Why not both? And sprinkle in some cultural differences (soccer is not that popular in the USA, so it's self-reinforcing). | |
| ▲ | Detrytus 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Well, nfl/nba are focused on big guys, 6’3 and above. In soccer your height/mass doesn’t matter much so the talent pools don’t overlap. And baseball is the old man’s game that does not require any athleticism at all. | | |
| ▲ | majormajor 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Lotta roles for fast smaller guys in NFL and MLB, so there's certainly competition. Beaten-to-death takes about baseball and athleticism aside, if a kid shows potential there it's a great path to follow: - some of the highest individual salaries and (to date) least restrictions on team spending - it's very very very easy for individual talent to stand out at basically every position; this can be harder in football and various levels especially for non-QB positions But once you're on the baseball path you're not gonna be training a skillset that would have much overlap with a soccer skillset. | |
| ▲ | musicale 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | As you indicate the most popular (and generally highest paying) professional sports in the US are football, basketball and baseball. This includes college football and basketball, which are part of the career path for those sports. Women's soccer is relatively popular, however. | | |
| ▲ | lostapathy 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | > Women's soccer is relatively popular, however. This may be a function of the fact that no other women's team sport is at all popular in the US? | | |
| ▲ | notesinthefield an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | Womens basketball viewership across college, pro and semi pro levels is significantly more popular than equivalent womens soccer levels. Non-USWNT games are surprisingly hard to locate and stream. | |
| ▲ | onlypassingthru an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | The WNBA would like a word. |
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| ▲ | dpark 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | > In soccer your height/mass doesn’t matter much so the talent pools don’t overlap. This is untrue and also just silly. The talent pools for horse jockeys and NBA players don't overlap. The talent pool for soccer and football is probably 90% overlap. Smaller players are certainly more likely to be successful in soccer than football but tall players can do great in soccer and average height guys can do well in football. > And baseball is the old man’s game that does not require any athleticism at all. Come on. Baseball doesn't demand the same athleticism as soccer but these guys are still elite athletes and there are plenty of stories of both MLB and NFL offering positions to the same players. | |
| ▲ | hunterpayne 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | The average NFL CB is the same size as a striker, but quicker and faster. And it isn't even all that close. Its the living and breathing soccer that matters. In those places, the best athletes play soccer. In the US, they play football or basketball. And if you think you can do anything at a pro level without extreme levels of athleticism, you are greatly deluded. | | |
| ▲ | jandrewrogers 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The amount of distance covered in a soccer game is twice that of a cornerback in an NFL game. Unlike NFL, soccer also has very limited substitutions so you can't readily swap in fresh legs. An athlete needs to be able to go the full distance at a high level. A natural cornerback isn't going to be "quicker and faster" over that many miles without a different kind of conditioning that probably favors different genetics. That said, I do think the game would translate well for some cornerbacks in some roles. | | |
| ▲ | leoc 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Additionally, a top-division European soccer team also typically plays something like 34 or 38 league games every season, and that doesn’t include things like domestic cups and European competition. | | |
| ▲ | jandrewrogers 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Excellent point. I hadn’t even considered the number of games. Good players will play over 2500 minutes in a season. That is a completely different type of wear and tear. |
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| ▲ | karp773 36 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| It's not about structured/unstructured play at all. Basketball and hockey teams in the very same USA are world class. It's about in which sports in the country the pro clubs pay top money. It's that simple. It sets up the incentives for families, and everything else follows. 99.99% of the kids who play in the street have a lot of fun but will never make it anywhere near pro sports. |
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| ▲ | otherme123 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > Finally, a good European player doesn't necessarily head to college. They may be playing for a serious club team at 18 or 19. My guess is that less than 5% of european soccer players ever set a foot in College, at least in the biggest Leagues (UK, France, Italy, Spain and Germany). I only know two: Lampard and Iniesta. There might be a few more, but they are oddities. If anything, a good player and good student usually has to make a choice at 18 years old: "am I good enough to bet my future on being a pro player and delay/abandon the College, or do I give up on being pro and focus on studying?" |
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| ▲ | hunterpayne 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Try joining a serious club between 12 to 14. Most soccer players that turn pro left school years ago. Sports and education aren't linked outside of the US. | |
| ▲ | karp773 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | If you have a choice (an offer) to be a pro player at 18, it means you had already given up on school by 12 or younger. | |
| ▲ | PearlRiver 3 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Most soccer players tend to retire in their late 30s so they are better off pursuing an education after their pro athlete career. Of course the best are multi millionaires who never have to work and can live from passive income. |
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| ▲ | harrall 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The US has also strangely invented a lot of sports (Americans football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, lacrosse, skateboarding, snowboarding, and so on). Soccer has major competition in the US. Because these sports started in America too, America usually dominates them. |
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| ▲ | Qem 4 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | > The US has also strangely invented a lot of sports (Americans football, basketball, baseball, volleyball, lacrosse, skateboarding, snowboarding, and so on). It appears the sports industry in US skewed local preferences toward hardware-intensive sports, that sell lots of gear. Poor children can start playing soccer stuffing crumpled paper in plastic bags to create a makeshift ball, and using spaced sandals as makeshift goalposts. Minimal hardware requirements. It's harder to play baseball or football without all assortment of costly bats, helmets, gloves, et cetera. Basketball comes closer to soccer in this regard. | | |
| ▲ | ricree an hour ago | parent | next [-] | | >It's harder to play baseball or football without all assortment of costly bats, helmets, gloves, et cetera In practice, casual football isn't any more resource heavy than soccer. Most non-league games of football are going to be "touch football", which only requires a ball, a field, and some sort of end marker (as a kid, it was usually just "from that tree to that other tree"). Obviously, organized league play has a ton more equipment, but the sort of informal casual games that kids or young adults play requires much less. It's one of those things that doesn't really get talked about a ton compared to league play, so it's easy to miss for those who didn't grow up with it. | |
| ▲ | toast0 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | A sturdy stick makes a decent enough baseball bat if you're hitting a light enough ball. It you can scrounge up a tennis ball, they work pretty well for street baseball. Don't need gloves, bases can be whatever you can agree on. Of course, it you have something vaguely soccerball shaped, you can play kickball with improvised bases rather than playing soccer. | | |
| ▲ | bilbo0s 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | >A sturdy stick makes a decent enough baseball bat Right around the 80’s and 90’s the idea of zero-tolerance youth crime policies swept the US. Right around the same time the popularity of baseball began a decline in the US. It went from being a universally played ‘pickup culture’ sport, to a sparsely played ‘pay to play’ sport. Now I’m not gonna say the need for 8 or 9 boys to roam around a neighborhood with a giant stick looking for a place to play was the reason the ‘pickup culture’ games died. But I will say that it was probably a lot safer for those boys to just go to a basketball court and wait their turn in a ‘pickup culture’ game that did not require a giant stick or bat. |
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| ▲ | skywhopper 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | This is way off. You only need a ball to play American football. Or a ball and bat to play baseball. Yes, the organized competitive versions have more gear involved, but so does organized soccer/football. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | brigandish an hour ago | parent | prev [-] | | Baseball was invented in Britain. |
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| ▲ | thehoff 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| What about baseball travel teams? Our kid plays travel soccer and it is expensive no doubt but our baseball parent friends pay more. I don't hear anyone complaining that baseball is pay to play. Also, from what I hear hockey is also extremely expensive. I've heard that you can't leave a sporting goods store without spending at least $1,000 on gear alone for a season. I've yet to hear anyone complain that hockey is pay to play. I think the other commenter has it right, most kids just gravitate towards American Football, Baseball, or Basketball. And in the state I live in, of probably the top five soccer teams, one is a private school, the rest are public. Edit: I don't know if other sports are like this but so many soccer parents are just extremely unrealistic/toxic. So many think they have the next superstar, questioning the coach on their child's play time, whey their kids didn't get placed on higher leveled teams, questioning why a coach is running practices certain ways. |
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| ▲ | brigandish an hour ago | parent [-] | | Isn't the contention that, because football is pay to play in the US, the US isn't that good compared to places that it isn't pay to play? Baseball, basketball, American football are all sports with much less international participation, and generally require pay to play elsewhere at around the same level as in the US, because of the way the sports are. There's no refutation possible from that. |
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| ▲ | amanaplanacanal 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I think the real answer is money. If there were as many soccer fans wanting to watch games on TV as there are baseball, football, and basketball, the US would be in the top rankings. |
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| ▲ | drivebyhooting 5 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| This is pretty much true for all high level competition in the US. It’s extremely hard to get good at chess. It’s extremely hard to get good at math. It’s extremely hard to get good at gymnastics. It’s extremely hard to get good at Piano. Meanwhile, in China or Russia, there are dedicated schools for mass producing concert, pianist, etc. |
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| ▲ | hawaiianbrah 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I believe most of what you said, but no college varsity player is playing only a few times a week. Even the lowest division of NCAA teams would have practice or matches 5-6 times a week in season. |
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| ▲ | SamBam 5 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | So leaving aside whether 5-6 times is "a few," the bigger issue is the length of the season. Varsity soccer season in the US is usually just four months, August-November. Spring season (with no games) is February-April. During that season, NCAA places strict limitations on how often teams can practice: Division I and II teams are allowed only up to 8 hours per week, with just 4 of those being coach-supervised! [1] Finally there is no organized playing for all of January, May, June and July. So even for a player in a D1 team, they are training much, much less of the year than a 15-year-old on a farm team in Europe. 1. https://ballatyourfeet.com/when-is-college-soccer-season-fal... | | | |
| ▲ | hibikir 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Sure, but as far as the people that are going to be professional, and good enough to play for a national team, you'd already be playing in the top levels of soccer by 19. Lamine Yamal was playing for the A team in Barcelona when he was barely 16, and was a starter in Spain's eurocup win at 17. More "normal" players, likePedri and Messi, played their first minutes for Barcelona at 17. So if you even smell a college varsity team, you are already in the slow track. It's really rare to find a star that wasn't at least in a farm team at 15. I have a friend that was already there at 10, and his ceiling was just starter in a low tier team in La Liga. | |
| ▲ | skywhopper 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | What’s intriguing to me is that several American colleges end up becoming magnets for European and South American soccer players. My midwestern mid-tier alma mater’s soccer team is 95% non-American. |
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| ▲ | drewmate 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| The same is basically true for most other sports in the US too, and yet there are still high-level Americans. Certainly baseball (which other countries do still play in a limited fashion), hockey and football. With football we are undisputed world champs for the last 60 years! Joking aside, there is no doubt that high-level NFL players are seriously talented and their whole sport revolves around structured practices and weekly games. Basketball might be closest to the USA’s soccer – lots of unstructured play and selection to schools and academies at a young age, but historically the pay to play travel circuit plays a big deal there too, and American basketball players are no doubt internationally competitive. I don’t have an answer either, I just think that the way we play soccer isn’t limiting the best potential players. I just think the best potential players are choosing to play other sports. |
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| ▲ | surgical_fire 6 hours ago | parent [-] | | The thing is that the US team sports you can think of such Baseball or American Football, have nearly no popularity outside of the US. Maybe Baseball in places like Japan or Venezuela. Maybe the only parallel to soccer I can think of is sports like Rugby in UK and some English-speaking countries, Cricket in India, and some sports endemic to countries (such as GAA in Ireland). The best way to compare the US to other countries in a sport that is similar in terms of interest among other countries is something like Volleyball. Which the US tends to be very good at, with many major competitors. I can't think of anywhere that volleyball is a #1 sport that sees a lot of unstructured play. All this was obviously about team sports. | | |
| ▲ | majormajor 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Baseball obviously has high popularity in a substantial number of non-US countries, though the main ones that feed the MLB (the DR, Venezuela, and Cuba) aren't often top-of-mind countries for many. The Japan/Korea interest is obviously non-trivial too. Basketball is the obvious one you're leaving out that's about the same age as Volleyball (itself a US team sport), and probably has the most international popularity -- especially if just going by people-counting since China alone is an enormous market. Funny thing, though: US players make up about 73% of the MLB but about 78% of the NBA, despite the NBA having more international popularity, and the current best players in both being from non-US countries. | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | The thing about basketball is that it is typically not a sport where it's a primary interest. Go to places where you find good Basketball players. Germany, former Yugoslavian countries, Spain, Argentina... All those places are primarily Football countries. You will find a few people interested in the sport, some youngster might be playing it for fun, but still very much behind football. It's just not comparable. | | |
| ▲ | musictubes 2 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Aren’t the ideal bodies pretty different for basketball and soccer? Are 6’6” guys a good size for soccer? How about taller? I’m sure European basketball players grow up playing soccer but at some point they end up playing to their strengths. | | |
| ▲ | jandrewrogers an hour ago | parent [-] | | The tallest soccer players are right around 6’6”. Outside of positions like center back and striker (and keeper), they rarely exceed 6’0”. |
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| ▲ | majormajor 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | That's... very American of it, still? The idea of a single sport in a country is weird and silly from a US point of view. I'm more interested in hockey, why would anyone think that would make me not a fan of basketall or football or baseball? But... so? I thought we were talking about if these sports had "nearly no popularity"? Not if they were displacing soccer entirely. "Nearly no popularity" is pretty obviously false based on eyeballs and sales, even if soccer is more popular... And there's a lot more countries and people in the world than just Europe. (But also very American of you to ignore them ;) .) How much would it even matter to the NBA if China is or isn't primarily a basketball country, or just a country with hundreds of millions of fans that also have another sport above it in their personal rankings, if they're making money either way? EDIT: and of course the name "soccer" originated in England because there were multiple foot-related games and so people made a more specific name. So maybe the weird countries are the ones that lost a fun multi-sport ecosystem and ended up a monoculture... |
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| ▲ | neves 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Baseball appeal in a country is always a history lesson. You can measure how a country was fucked up by USA based in their love of baseball:
- Cuba
- Japan
- Panama
- Venezuela No other country can like a sport this boring. | | |
| ▲ | musictubes 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Korea, Dominican Republic, Mexico all have pro leagues as well. There are more leagues growing in places like the UK and Australia as well though fully amateur at this point I think. Suffice it to say fans across all of these countries find it thrilling enough to play and watch. I don’t understand the casual sniping against baseball. There are plenty of sports I have no interest in but I don’t call them out because nobody cares what I think of them. |
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| ▲ | 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | [deleted] | |
| ▲ | temp_praneshp 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] | | Basketball? | |
| ▲ | skywhopper 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | I can’t speak to its actual popularity, but when I visit Europe and local folks hear I’m from the US, I’m surprised how often they are interested in talking about the NBA. Maybe it’s more pronounced in Eastern Europe where a lot of basketball talent has made it to the NBA over the years. | | |
| ▲ | surgical_fire 2 hours ago | parent [-] | | Well, if you are from the US, and I was talking to you about sports... Yeah, I would try to find a middle ground so that a conversation could happen. NBA is likely a reasonable thing to try. Why would I bother talking to you about Bundesliga, Champions League, Libertadores Cup or whatever else? Also, I worked with many people from Eastern Europe. Apart from Lithuania, I think all other countries are interested in Football more than in Basketball. |
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| ▲ | misterinfo 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| At my high school and college, the best athletes were playing Football or basketball not soccer. If some of those athletic running backs were playing soccer all their life they would've been a problem. |
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| ▲ | vjvjvjvjghv 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | The physical attributes needed for soccer are quite different from football or basketball. I don't think any football or basketball players would be good at soccer even if they tried. | | |
| ▲ | hunterpayne 3 hours ago | parent | next [-] | | Nope, not true at all. The average NFL CB makes the best athletes in soccer or rugby look like furniture movers, even in drills designed for soccer. Same for the majority NBA PGs. There is a lot of overlap in team sports for specific types of athleticism. The average pro you see on TV could usually beat the best player in your hometown at whatever sport they played. And not just beat, but beat badly. There are NFL DTs that can do 360 dunks and run a 40 in 4.6sec (at 300lbs) which is faster than your average pro striker in soccer. | |
| ▲ | theklub 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-] | | Lebron as a goalie? Or hell half the nba... |
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| ▲ | qingcharles 4 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Isn't soccer a mostly women's sport in the USA? Do boys even play it at all? The USA women's team is world class, probably for this reason. In the UK boys mostly play soccer while girls traditionally played netball (basketball). |
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| ▲ | gbear605 4 hours ago | parent [-] | | Soccer is extremely widespread and played by both boys and girls at a young age (up until puberty or so), but there definitely is a gender gap after that. I'd guess that there are a lot of other sports that are almost solely played by boys, so boys tend to drift away from soccer, while there are fewer options for girls. (Though there are some - lacrosse and softball for a couple examples.) | | |
| ▲ | stephencanon 3 hours ago | parent [-] | | Field hockey is almost exclusively a girls sport in the US, while boys have (American) football in the fall. Both draw from the potential pool of soccer players in US middle and high schools. |
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| ▲ | dh2022 6 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| +1. Want to add that in Europe promising players drafted by clubs by age of 10 already get soccer equipment and some token money ($50 / week), practice every day after school and transportation to out of town games is on the club’s bus. In the US at that age parents pay for the equipment, and drive their kids to every game-including out of town. And because US is so large these are long drives. |
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| ▲ | ma2kx an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| I don't think the unstructured format directly contributes to the playing strength but rather attracts more player to play in a local club. Even in the town where I life with less than 100'000 people there are 10 clubs, 168 teams and nearly 3000 (mostly semi-professional) soccer player. Of course not all of them are young anymore but extrapolate this numbers to the population of a country it becomes a huge talent pool available for the major clubs. And compared to the US there is a far more dense competition as any state has its own national league and on top are the Champions, Europe and Conference league. So every major soccer team plays in a national and a europene league at the same time and thus the players get of course much more routine. But hey, we suck at baseball and basketball. |
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| ▲ | nchmy 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Yes, this is it. |
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| ▲ | dogmatism 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| > college (maybe on a scholarship but maybe not--again, pay to play), plays for the varsity team a few times a week during the season wtaf? Do you really think this is the reality? Also, now with NIL etc, college soccer is essentially another international semi-pro league |
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| ▲ | ignoramous 3 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-] |
| Despite the fairly similar cultural and financial incentives at play in Europe & South America, France and Spain (Portugal to an extent, as well) pretty much lead the footballing world in terms of elite talent. Their depth is ridiculous. For France, their sporting renaissance, if we can call it that, started way earlier in the late 1960s with what we'd call "DEI" today: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/article/2024/jul/24/state-... For Spain, correctly focusing on developing in-game intelligence and skill was key in out-competing stronger & taller teams (at a time when rapidly improving football pitches were proving great for playing positional & possession-based game): A very 1970s Dutch way of playing kick-started by Johan Cruyff in 1990s at Barcelona, and converted into concrete results for the national team by Luis Aragones & Vincente del Bosque in 2000s/2010s: https://thesefootballtimes.co/2018/05/11/the-revolution-that... |
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| ▲ | troupo 4 hours ago | parent | prev [-] |
| > For a US kid, soccer is typically "pay to play." This is true for most sports (and activities) in the US. Additionally, the US doesn't have the concept of unstructured play, as many (most?) kids are fully depend on the parent or the school to take them places, since most of the US is so car-dependent. |