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dylan604 9 days ago

From studio output, it feels like all they read are graphic novels

stevenwoo 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

He says he mainly summarizes plot and that the qualities of the writing are not important. It seems like that would miss opportunities - for instance he didn’t think Vineland was adaptable and didn’t even recognize One Battle After Another as the adaptation when he saw it until the credits rolled. Another example, IMHO Arrival is a beautiful adaptation that improves upon the original short story mostly by addition, or maybe it’s cause Amy Adams is more charismatic than the character in my imagination.

sateesh 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

I think "Arrival" as a story is better than the movie. I think the movie misses on the part on how hard communication can be, and how different is the way aliens grok the reality as a whole. Also did you watch the movie first and read the story or the other way. I read the story first and then watched the movie with lot of anticipations, and was tad disappointed.

throw0101c 9 days ago | parent [-]

> I think "Arrival" as a story is better than the movie. I think the movie misses on the part on how hard communication can be, and how different is the way aliens grok the reality as a whole.

The movie does not miss anything about the difficulties of communication because that is not what the movie is about: it is about motherhood/parenthood, love, grief.

sateesh 9 days ago | parent [-]

That is the point I am making: how hard communication is, grokking reality as whole are some of the core themes of the story (is what I felt). The movie doesn't focus on these aspects at all, maybe these are hard to adapt in a mainstream Hollywood movie.

dylan604 9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Stand By Me and Shawshank Redemption are good examples of the adaptation being an improvement. Then again, adaptations are usually a novel being adapted for a shorter telling rather than a short story being elaborated.

eszed 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

Those are great, but The Godfather is my favorite example. The book is, honestly, terrible. The prose is bad. It focuses almost exclusively on the salacious - does it need to tell us that many times about the size of Sonny's cock? - and enjoys the violence a bit too much. None of the minor characters leave any impression at all. The movie, though, is... The Godfather. It transcends it's source, without transposing or changing anything - in fact, I suspect it's far more faithful to its historical setting than the novel - more fully than any adaptation I'm aware of.

triceratops 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

The funny thing about The Godfather is that the movie made the book possible, in a way.

Paramount optioned the novel while Mario Puzo was still writing it. They heard about an early 60-page draft of the book from a literary scout. Mario Puzo was deep in gambling debt and took the option deal because he was desperate for cash. There's a chance Puzo couldn't have finished the book without the deal, because he got a $12,500 advance and would get another $80k if the movie got made.

Paramount announced the option deal in March 1967, two years before the book was published. After it was published they put the movie into production.

Mario Puzo and Francis Ford Coppola are the credited screenwriters for the movie. Puzo wrote drafts, Coppola revised them. It was Coppola's idea to start the movie with the line "I believe in America", to highlight what he felt was one of the story's core themes. In the book that scene happens a few chapters in.

So yeah, the book was kinda pulpy and schlocky. But it may never have been published without Hollywood backing. And its author was also half-responsible for turning it into a near-universally acclaimed, Oscar-winning screenplay.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Godfather#Production

simiones 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

Another pretty famous example is Stalker, based on Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky brothers. The novel is an ok sci-fi concept, but the film takes it to a whole other philosophical level.

atombender 9 days ago | parent [-]

Stalker has an interesting history, because Tarkovsky did shoot the Strugatskys' own screenplay first.

But almost all of the shot film was accidentally damaged beyond repair by the Soviet lab — they were using specially imported Kodak film stock that apparently the lab was unfamiliar with — and Tarkovsky had to go back to the Soviet film board and negotiate more money to reshoot the film.

Tarkovsky had been unhappy with the film as he shot it, and during these months of downtime, he repeatedly workshopped the script together with the Strugatskys. Long story short, Arkady Strugatsky proposed that Tarkovsky strip down the story; he wrote a treatment that reduced the entire film to a bare-bones, more philosophical story with nameless characters and very few overt sci-fi elements. Tarkovsky essentially wrote everything around that new core, much of it apparently also written during the second shoot.

I recommend the book "The Films of Andrei Tarkovsky: A Visual Fugue", by Johnson and Petrie, which has a whole chapter on Stalker and the difficulties of making that film.

In my opinion, Roadside Picnic is a masterpiece, and I would have loved to see a faithful adaptation of it. Stalker, as it ended up, is not really an adaptation of it.

stevenwoo 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

That’s true, your comment reminded me of The Electric State which maybe 50 pages of drawings with descriptions and the trailer for the movie was unintentionally funny to me like it was a parody and World War Z where I loved the short action packed book which seemed like an easy translation but I was so wrong.

piltdownman 9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

'Children of Men' is probably the best contemporary example of this - appalling book that informed a piece of cinema that's basically beyond reproach.

The archetype in blockbuster cinema has to be Spielberg's 'Jaws'. I'd also give 'Barry Lyndon' a huge commendation.

Those who contend that 'Starship Troopers' is a better adaptation than the book simply don't understand Heinlein or his aims. A fantastic movie and a darkly cynical piece of social commentary on jingoistic nationalism and 'bootcamp' movies as seen through the lense of a highschool ensemble. The book, however, represents a weightier piece of analysis in its own right and provides some fascinating insights into fascism, civil and civic duty, and the role of the individual in the machine.

I could also go into a long and varied debate about Michael Crichton and Stephen King properties which span both sides of this fence, but that's for another post I feel!

Cthulhu_ 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

Nerdsniped by Starship Troopers, I think it's important to make the distinction there between a direct book adaptation versus "a movie inspired by".

Standalone (and keeping the "this whole thing is a propaganda movie" thing in the back of your head), Starship Troopers is a great film. But it's not a good book adaptation.

dctoedt 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

> [Re: Starship Troopers] The book, however, represents a weightier piece of analysis in its own right and provides some fascinating insights into fascism, civil and civic duty, and the role of the individual in the machine.

One of my favorites as a teen, and it holds up reasonably well for me decades later. I didn't see it as insights into fascism so much as a meditation into what it would take to keep a global, and later interstellar, society functioning. Yes, there was emphasis on duty, but not to an excess (ISTM), and not a surprise considering Heinlein's U.S. Naval Academy background and subsequent service.

rendaw 9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

This is very weird to me. Is it that hard to find good fiction that hasn't already been made into a movie, that they need to hire someone else to do it? Is the difference between a good movie and a bad movie the quality of the source material it was based on? Maybe I'm reading this wrong.

antasvara 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

The number of bad book adaptations makes me believe this is harder than you'd think. It's really an act of translation; you have to figure out if a book "works" without being able to just say what a character is thinking, without using descriptive lanfuage to imply something, etc.

Plenty of great books would make terrible movies for this reason, and plenty of pretty terrible books can actually make good movies.

Cthulhu_ 9 days ago | parent [-]

Likewise video game -> movie adaptations, it seems to be very hard to do. Or they just don't get it, but that's probably my own bias. Thing is, some games are basically interactive movies, but they still make changes to meet some Hollywood ticklist.

(I am forever salty about Max Payne, Prince of Persia, Assassin's Creed, etc. Max Payne could've worked with 1/10th of its budget (no CGI or famous actors necessary).

HardlyCognizant 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I'd imagine you have to read for a particular framework to assess viability. Translating from a literary medium to a visual one is very challenging. Much of the detail in the former will be lost in the latter, like inner monologue, narrative time compression, etc.

There is a reason most underlying film stories are so short, or feel tenuously connected from major scene to scene. There just isn't room to express much complexity through imagery and dialogue in 120ish minutes, unless you are also overtly narrating or exposition dumping. And a core rule of modern fiction is "show, don't tell" no matter the medium.

AlwaysRock 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

One Battle After Another is a fairly loose adaptation, no?

ASalazarMX 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

I was skeptical, but the article starts with Train Dreams, which according to HowLongToRead, would take 2 hours at 300 WPM.

https://howlongtoread.com/books/323872/Train-Dreams

Two days per book full time means one every 16 hours. Enough to read the full Foundation Trilogy with one hour to rest between books.

On a side note, I'm ashamed to share that I tested my reading speed, and while it was 264 WPM, my reading comprehension was 50%. That's why I read slower, and frequently re-read.

https://swiftread.com/reading-speed-test

Out of spite I tried to measure my Spanish reading, 520 WPM and 100% comprehension. Very unfair since it's my native language and I can glance and skip instead of reading every word.

https://speedreadr.com/es/

CobaltFire 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

Can't say I ever took a test like that. 644wpm and 100% in English (native language).

Hard to judge that based on just five questions though.

daveshistory 9 days ago | parent [-]

You will feel more judged when you score 67% like me.

Edited to add: we must have followed different links though, mine only had three questions obviously.

CobaltFire 9 days ago | parent [-]

I think it gives various passages and questions from a bank.

Mine was a paragraph about small loans to poor populations, and had five questions.

daveshistory 9 days ago | parent [-]

Yeah, mine was about the social meaning of distances when speaking to people (not exactly my specialty!).

guardiangod 9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

ESL and I got 512 WPM and 75%. I don't agree with the 1 wrong answer but I digress.

Reading fast means you can take in more info per unit of time. It can be a useful ability, if tedious at times.

9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]
[deleted]
Cthulhu_ 9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I think reading for fun and reading for a job are difficult to compare; I'm sure this fellow has a very high reading speed and / or can skim across parts that aren't important for the task at hand. But that's making assumptions.

daveshistory 9 days ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm curious what these tests are measuring if you say your reading comprehension is only 50%. Your comment here is completely articulate and sensible so you are obviously fluent in English.

Edited to add: hm. I just got 67%. I guess my college degree is a waste. Should have gone the humanities route instead.

ASalazarMX 9 days ago | parent | next [-]

It hurts, doesn't it? I also thought a few measly questions would be a piece of cake, and mainly focused on speed.

daveshistory 9 days ago | parent [-]

I didn't consciously focus on speed. I just completely overestimated my ability to skim. Interesting. I think I actually would have done better when I was younger and used to doing these things in school. I obviously don't read as carefully as I used to.

Makes you wonder what else you're missing.

dylan604 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

In high school, there was an academic event for reading comprehension. I tried it one time and was humiliated. They read aloud to you a story, and then they ask you questions about it after. I have no idea where my head was, as I didn't do well at all. I never tried the event again. It wasn't until that experience before I realized that I'm the type that needs to read things multiple times for it to stick.

daveshistory 9 days ago | parent [-]

I feel like in high school I would have scored better on this. I was overconfident. I skimmed it quickly, like anything I would have done at work, and figured I'd sort of internalize the main points. Like I think I do at work.

Oops.

testaccount28 9 days ago | parent | prev [-]

2000 WPM @ 75%