Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains. Despite many people losing their jobs as a result, it's tough to argue society isn't better off.

I think that's the key difference with AI, though. It's not like I'm losing my job, but at least I have a robot at home that cleans the house and does my laundry. People are having their livelihoods threatened while their utility bills go up because of datacenters, and the only substantive impact in their personal lives is that now they have to deal with chatbots and low effort automated customer service agents even more.

I'm OK with accepting a job that pays 10x less if the efficiencies from AI mean we're all living in abundance and life is >10x cheaper. But it's unclear if/when we'll move beyond marginal business impact, aside from in software development, I suppose.

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esikich 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

I think it's impossible to argue we are better off. This comment is so detached from reality it's almost offensive. Education is unaffordable, health care is unaffordable, homes are unaffordable, the rich have gotten massively richer, the middle class has been gutted, suicides are up, birth rates are down... I could go on and on. It's gotten better for the 1% but the rest of us are being boiled like frogs. To the point where we've (you've) literally forgotten we used to be able to raise a family on a single income. But I guess we have video games and door dash, so sure, we're better off.

	▲	zeroonetwothree 3 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		Median income is vastly higher. Did you live before ~1990? Standard of living was a lot lower back then, it’s pretty apparent.

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Ancalagon an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Is society better off? Honest question, you used to be able to support a family of four with a single 9-5.

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bryanlarsen 32 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

And that support was a family of 4-6 in a 1200 sq ft house, eating out <6x a year, vacations were picnics at the local beach, one car that you did your own maintenance on, one tv, only one set of good clothes (your Sunday outfit), et cetera. Most places in the US can still support a family at that same level of expenditure on an average income.

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kylenessen 33 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

My great grandfather supported a family of 7 making brooms. He didn’t own the broom factory. He was an employee, and was paid by the broom. My great grandmother stayed at home to raise 5 children. There was even enough to lend to the local grocery store, apparently. This was at the turn of the 20th century in Canada.

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bwhiting2356 43 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

More household work was done in this era, before grocery stores sold prepared food, before washing machines. And more people lived in less square footage, with grandparents living in the home, less privacy and autonomy. I don't know if we've made the right trade, but it's not the case that a single worker's income was paying for the kind of lifestyle a family of four now has.

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esikich 33 minutes ago | parent [-]

How is this relevant? The houses built in the 60s aren't affordable either. Look at median income and median home prices. You're telling on yourself. Average families aren't buying prepared food and they have a washing machine from the 90s they bought on craigslist. There's a 90% chance if you are on this site, you are not average. You are a part of the haves and you need to consider that you are living a very different life from the average American, which all this productivity should be helping but fucking clearly isn't.

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Auracle 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

> The houses built in the 60s aren't affordable either.

Far, far more people and the same amount of land.

> Average families aren't buying prepared food and they have a washing machine from the 90s they bought on craigslist.

Well, that's just not true. The average person is absolutely terrible with their money. Not only are they buying prepared food, they're paying someone to drive it to their house.

	▲	iamnothere 6 minutes ago \| parent [-]
		> Well, that's just not true. The average person is absolutely terrible with their money. Not only are they buying prepared food, they're paying someone to drive it to their house. The average person is doing this? Do you have sources/stats or are you just going on vibes, or are you looking at people in your (likely non-average) peer group?

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fyrn_ an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Shareholders = society. The rest of us are just the help

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throw0101a 32 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

> Computers and the Internet ushered in huge productivity gains.

“You can see the computer age everywhere but in the productivity statistics.” — Robert Solow

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Productivity_paradox

* https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-solow-productivity-pa...

Connectivity/the Internet gave a bit of a boost during the 1990s, but the numbers pearked around 2004:

* https://www.milkenreview.org/articles/the-rise-and-fall-of-a...

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_American_...

* https://www.csls.ca/ipm/31/gordon.pdf

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danny_codes 5 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

>I'm OK with accepting a job that pays 10x less if the efficiencies from AI mean we're all living in abundance

Well, you won't be living in abundance. All productivity gains will go to the oligarchs. You will have slightly less than you had before. Instead of cleaning the floor yourself you'll work the extra hour for the oligarchs doing whatever the robots cant.

That's the path America is on at present.

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shimman an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Is this a joke? Income inequality is at it's highest (even worse than the gilded age), deaths of despair are at their highest as well, people can't afford childcare (a years worth of childcare costs more than college), people are losing access to health insurance en masse; but we're suppose to think society is truly better off?

What brand of edibles do you have there 'bud? I'd like to fly into that realm of alternate reality for a bit.

Also when have any efficiencies gained by employers benefited workers? Being honest here because the only time workers have truly gained anything was due to solidarity between workers in the forms of strikes + workplace sabotage.