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PacificSpecific 2 hours ago

Never thought I'd be living in a world where my tech hardware purchases INCREASE in value over the years.

protoster 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

This feels like a sign of something very bad happening soon

goldenarm 35 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

What kind of thing ? Shortages ?

runiq 6 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

The end of owned hardware. In the glorious future, you will rent your hardware and you will like it.

bigfishrunning 27 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

We're already in a shortage (of RAM). Price increases should be a motivator to increase production. This is the system working.

phatfish 5 minutes ago | parent [-]

Will there be increase in production if the 3 companies that make the RAM decide they can profit more by keeping production mostly the same and flogging it for 10x the price of a couple of years ago to a few AI companies happy to burn cash?

The only hope is China spoils the party.

protoster 14 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

More like a global economic depression

colechristensen 9 minutes ago | parent | prev [-]

We're in a pretty big bubble predicated on the idea that AI is going to have a lot more value than it actually will. Not that it's not going to be useful, it just isn't going to be the incredible force multiplier the market thinks it is. This speculation, gas prices, tariffs, etc. are going to result in a 2009-ish bubble pop I'm guessing which will be triggered by particularly bad private credit default news (perhaps a sizable bank failing?) and or some major news triggering the reevaluation of the AI hype poking at some systemic banking issue or another.

bsimpson an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Is soon now?

vel0city 41 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

When will then become now?

https://youtu.be/nRGCZh5A8T4?t=73

deaton an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

sometime in the past

ryanmcbride an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

I'm used to this happening with retro collecting but not with things being actively produced

stuxnet79 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Don't forget that this is all intentional and by design. If the tech oligarchs have their way we will all have no choice but to rent compute by the token within the next 3-5 years. The era of the personal computer is over. Current supply chains & production capacity can't accomodate both the AI hyperscalers and regular consumers.

malfist 2 hours ago | parent | next [-]

Thats one hell of a leap you got there. Things have gotten more expensive before. It won't be the last

xerox13ster an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Have things gotten this much more expensive at the same time that massive datacenters are harmonically distorting power delivery [0] to the point that it degrades the lifetime of your existing devices?

The AI datacenters are making things more expensive and at the same time destroying existing electronics. All this is happening at the same time that the major OS vendors are locking down their operating systems and creating device attestation frameworks.

Whether it is a coordinated effort behind the scenes is irrelevant, the real outcome of all of this is that the average home tech prosumer will not be able to afford to maintain personal hardware that remains compatible with mainstream services.

In light of the consumer market RAM shortages, all the consumer devices will transition to thin client architectures that offload all their real compute to the centralized cloud. You will not be allowed to modify these devices, and there will be nothing you can modify them to do. They will have no ports, using wireless charging and wireless connectivity, and likely even any UART will be left off the board, if you can get them open at all. Like the Apple Watch or Airpods, they will not be built to be openable, and opening them will be an irreversibly destructive act.

You will not be able to buy these devices, they will only be available on a subscription basis. You will own nothing and be told you should be happy.

Online major digital services will only be compatible with these devices, offering no endpoints for third party devices to connect.

[0]: https://archive.ph/f707o

jauntywundrkind 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

8x more expensive? I doubt things have ever gotten anywhere remotely near this crazy this bought out this not for sale this fast.

malfist an hour ago | parent | next [-]

Memory used to be worth more than gold by weight, and still every stick was sold.

GPUs, flight controllers, etc went sky high during the pandemic and we still buy them today.

Hard drives got way more expensive during flooding, and we still have local storage.

xienze an hour ago | parent [-]

> Memory used to be worth more than gold by weight, and still every stick was sold.

And right before that, was it dirt cheap? No? Slightly different scenario then.

> GPUs, flight controllers, etc went sky high during the pandemic and we still buy them today.

They're even more now...

> Hard drives got way more expensive during flooding, and we still have local storage.

Nowhere near as expensive as they are now, nowhere near as high a jump in price in a short period of time as now. Plus, there was a defined end point of "flood over, back to normal." There is no "AI data center build out over, back to normal" in sight.

jauntywundrkind 20 minutes ago | parent [-]

I'm so unsure why someone was working so hard to wedge such doubt amid such clearness. Yes, well said, very core clear differences you raise, my thanks.

t-writescode 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Tulips?

jauntywundrkind 21 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Tulips just look pretty. That's a mania. I think we recognize the mental agility that having compute fan give people, that we acknowledge this bicycle of the mind as potentially freeing liberating and virtually travelling.

WithinReason an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Bitcoin?

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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dankben 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

You're acting like companies like Apple would simply let "the tech oligarchs" make 20% of their revenue disappear

sheepdestroyer an hour ago | parent | next [-]

I don't want an apple blob I want to pick specific components and run linux

pjmlp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They wouldn't blink twice pushing everyone into iPhone, iPad and watches.

The death of Mac was already a discussion topic a few years ago, they only need do XCode on iPadOS or iCloud, Android Studio style.

tavavex 2 hours ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Trillion dollar companies like Apple will still be able to get their hands on whatever they need, albeit at worse prices. Individual consumers trying to buy those components directly probably won't.

xerox13ster an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

You're acting like Apple wouldn't simply make hay in a world of thin client device subscriptions, where they can charge a subscription for the thin client device and the services that make it usable.

kys11 2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]

[dead]

e40 an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Now imagine TSMC being controlled by China. While I think it's fairly low probability, the imagination does create some pretty dystopian scenarios.

nemomarx an hour ago | parent | next [-]

China would probably want to increase production and export more? What are you worried about specifically

they don't price gouge on other stuff from shenzhen really do

e40 38 minutes ago | parent [-]

Either the factories are gone or China controls them and takes most of the output for themselves. They've already been excluded from a good amount of the output!

utopiah an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

How would that work? They can't take the fabs (single door opened and dust makes it all useless) and even if they could they can't run ASML machines with their support. So... labor camp fabs on unmaintained STOA hardware from a single company everybody relies on? I can't imagine that scenario. Either they manage to redeploy the whole value chain (not saying it's impossible but doesn't seem to be the case at scale for now) or taking Taiwan by force is mostly a political show, not a technological one.

e40 39 minutes ago | parent | next [-]

Simple, they invade and TSMC blows up their factories. Or, the invasion is successful and they control the factories.

I didn't say it was likely, but one of these two outcomes is possible.

bearjaws 35 minutes ago | parent [-]

If China has proven one thing, they can just rebuild the factories, sure it will be 5-8 years of depression but afterwards they will control a dominate player.

ummonk an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

Wouldn't the rest of the world encourage ASML to keep supporting the fab because they want the chips to keep coming?

utopiah an hour ago | parent [-]

Which rest of the World? ASML already has restrictions on China from Netherlands (where they are based) and the US (which provides some core IP).

ummonk an hour ago | parent [-]

My argument is that they would add an exception for TSMC in the event that Taiwan fell under Chinese control. The alternative would be an extreme supply shock to the industry that's responsible for most stock market and GDP growth in America.

pepperoni_pizza an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China is working hard on getting their own fabs. Then the have no need to keep TSMC operational.

utopiah an hour ago | parent [-]

As I said China is indeed already working on their entire value chain. They have been doing that for a while and they have made significant progress. Still so far they don't have the precision, scale and economical competitiveness than TSMC. If they get there then it will be a totally different scenario but that's not the case for now.

Muromec 15 minutes ago | parent [-]

It's not a if it's when. ASML doesn't pay fuck you money to their employees just to keep China from hiring them away.

Eventually ASML will get in same boat as all of the Western industries from shipbuilding and car manufacturing to everything else.

It may take one year or twenty, but law if it's a matter of national security for them, eventually they will get ahead.

throwaway85825 40 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They need regular chemical deliveries from japan as well.

22 minutes ago | parent | prev | next [-]
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bigyabai an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

If TSMC were to simply disappear, it would be a great day for Samsung/Intel but a godawful catastrophe for most HPC applications and consumer hardware. People aren't afraid of a fab takeover, they're afraid of TSMC disappearing altogether.

utopiah an hour ago | parent [-]

It's the point of my question, I don't see how TSMC could not disappear if Taiwan becomes part of China.

DrProtic an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

They’re literally worlds’ factory but that’s where things would turn bad?

consp an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

In that case my retro hardware collection will be worth even more. (Note: that my current hardware will likely be retro faster than I assume it would have been)

I also found out recently my matched, working 3d hardware from the '90s was worth more than my actual year-old medium-high end video card, so who knows!

/s for obvious reasons, except the rise in prices of 3dfx cards ffs (wtaf).

joecot an hour ago | parent | prev | next [-]

China, who keeps undercutting ai prices and producing things efficiently?

I don't have to imagine what it would be like under communism in order to see what it's already like under capitalism.

bigfishrunning 23 minutes ago | parent [-]

> China, who keeps undercutting ai prices (by training on model output) and producing things efficiently (with slave labor)?

Yeah, things are going great over there

sdenton4 an hour ago | parent | prev [-]

Dystopian scenarios... Like even more expensive steam decks.

2 hours ago | parent | prev [-]
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